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Electronics Forum / Electronics / March 2005Newsgroup Nazi
I've had a DSL line for a year or so, supplied by SBC Internet Services, and I'm really pleased with it. I was using another ISP for outgoing email and news, and yesterday I decided to save a few bucks by dropping the other ISP and running everything through SWB. No problem; everything worked fine except the connection to Usenet, through Prodigy, which was (is) so crappy that I didn't see any new posts on sed or abse for hours after I hooked up with prodigy's news server. So, I thought, maybe something's wrong on my end. In order to check it out I decided to send some test posts to see if they'd make it through, and here's what I found in my inbox shortly after that: <QUOTE> FYI, Please be advised that posting tests to discussion groups is considered poor netiquette. There are test groups set aside for posting tests. Please retry your test to sbcglobal.test, or alt.test. For binary test posts please use alt.test.binaries. All unmoderated groups work the same way so if a post works to a test group it should work in any group. On the rare occasion where a test must be made to a discussion group, please post a short on-topic message as your test. Your test post would have been successful had it not been filtered out. If you are having problems with or questions regarding newsgroups please post your concerns to; news://sbcglobal.help.tech.newsgroups or email news-support@sbcglobal.net Common problems and fixes may be found at; http://newsgroups.news.prodigy.com Thank You,  SignatureTom Ippolito Newsgroups System Administrator SBC Services ippolitot@prodigy.net <END QUOTE> Notice that Ippolito took it upon _himself_ to stop a legal transmission which I'm paying good money to supposedly be able to do. What do y'all think about that? -- John Fields > I've had a DSL line for a year or so, supplied by SBC Internet > Services, and I'm really pleased with it. I was using another ISP for [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > Thank You, If only they could do the same for OT: Blah-blah-blah's we would be set. I read in sci.electronics.design that John Fields <jfields@austininstrum ents.com> wrote (in <12bj315kqurrphd28bfv8bjg9nn6nb9ppp@4ax.com>) about 'Newsgroup Nazi', on Thu, 17 Mar 2005: >What do y'all think about that? He must be French. SignatureRegards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. The good news is that nothing is compulsory. The bad news is that everything is prohibited. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk >I read in sci.electronics.design that John Fields <jfields@austininstrum >ents.com> wrote (in <12bj315kqurrphd28bfv8bjg9nn6nb9ppp@4ax.com>) about [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >He must be French. "Ippolito"? Sure sounds "French" to me ;-) Me, I'd send Ippolito a nastygram, copied to whatever state agency regulates SBC in Texass. ...Jim Thompson | James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | | | E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat | | http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food. > >I read in sci.electronics.design that John Fields <jfields@austininstrum > >ents.com> wrote (in <12bj315kqurrphd28bfv8bjg9nn6nb9ppp@4ax.com>) about [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > ...Jim Thompson > -- But first check the fine print in your TOS/AUP. There's a good chance that you signed away the right when you signed up for their service. But just because they made you waive your rights doesn't mean that what they're doing is legal. There a good chance it violates some law. One thing that should be considered. SBC is a regulated entity, so certain things are different than for a regular ISP. However they may have their internet services spun off as a separate company to take care of this. [regarding ISP's blocking of an off-topic post and complaint about same] > But first check the fine print in your TOS/AUP. There's a good chance > that you signed away the right when you signed up for their service. That's an excellent point. I've not read the terms of service agreement the OP executed, (and neither has he, I suspect), but I have read (and executed) several, and most or all of them explicitly provided for the action that the OP's ISP took. > But just because they made you waive your rights doesn't mean that what > they're doing is legal. There a good chance it violates some law. I doubt that very much. What law do you think that is? Something the U.S. Congress passed? Case law? [snip] Signature--Larry Brasfield email: donotspam_larry_brasfield@hotmail.com Above views may belong only to me. > [regarding ISP's blocking of an off-topic post and complaint about same] > > But first check the fine print in your TOS/AUP. There's a good chance [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > think that is? Something the U.S. Congress > passed? Case law? Maybe I shouldn't have used the word good there. The violation would most likely involve privacy and monitoring, and/or censorship and free speech. > [snip] > -- > --Larry Brasfield > email: donotspam_larry_brasfield@hotmail.com > Above views may belong only to me. [Followups set to alt.politics.libertarian .] >> "Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover"" >> [regarding ISP's blocking of an off-topic post and complaint about same] ... [regarding suggested look at TOS agreement] ... >> > But just because they made you waive your rights One can interpret "coercion" broadly, of course, but no court in the land counts the inducement of a service offered for money as coercion. >> > doesn't mean that what >> > they're doing is legal. There a good chance it violates some law. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Maybe I shouldn't have used the word good there. Probabilities are often hard to quantify or get right. > The violation would > most likely involve privacy and monitoring, and/or censorship and free > speech. Blocking something that was destined for a public forum is hardly likely to fall under privacy law. Censorship is something the government can do, not private individuals, unless there is some real coercion involved, a crime all by itself. "Free speech" is a much misunderstood notion. I continue to be amazed at the derivations that flow from "Congress shall make no law ...". [snip snip] Signature--Larry Brasfield email: donotspam_larry_brasfield@hotmail.com Above views may belong only to me. >>I read in sci.electronics.design that John Fields <jfields@austininstrum >>ents.com> wrote (in <12bj315kqurrphd28bfv8bjg9nn6nb9ppp@4ax.com>) about [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > ...Jim Thompson Agency? Regulates? Clearly, son, you don't understand how we do business here in Texas. >>>I read in sci.electronics.design that John Fields <jfields@austininstrum >>>ents.com> wrote (in <12bj315kqurrphd28bfv8bjg9nn6nb9ppp@4ax.com>) about [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >Agency? Regulates? Clearly, son, you don't understand how we do >business here in Texas. ROTFLMAO! ...Jim Thompson | James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | | | E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat | | http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food. > I read in sci.electronics.design that John Fields <jfields@austininstrum > ents.com> wrote (in <12bj315kqurrphd28bfv8bjg9nn6nb9ppp@4ax.com>) about [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > He must be French. Nah. He's a Patriot! His suppression of test messages is perfectly legal under the Patriot Act! What are you, some kind of subversive? ;-P Rich >He's a Patriot! His suppression of test messages >is perfectly legal under the Patriot Act! >What are you, some kind of subversive? ;-P > Rich Grise Careful, dude. You're not a Republicrat or a Demopublican. You could be next on the list. [snip] > <END QUOTE> > > Notice that Ippolito took it upon _himself_ to stop a legal > transmission which I'm paying good money to supposedly be able to do. > > What do y'all think about that? I had Pac Bell (now SBC) dialup and it was so spitty, spotty and worthless that I soon dropped it. They would drop the connection after just a half hour or less, and that was assuming something else wasn't wrong with their servers. They are so incompetent and they can get away with it because they're one of the biggest providers, even worse than AOHell. There's even a website and/or newsgroup just for how bad their service is. http://pachell.com/ http://twiki.cageyconsumer.com/PacBellHell I just spent the last _four_ days trying to get them to fix a DSL line at work. I brought it up an the monthly service meeting with our SBC account reps and got sympathy, but that's all. > -- > John Fields >There's even a website and/or newsgroup >just for how bad their service is. >http://pachell.com/ >http://twiki.cageyconsumer.com/PacBellHell > Watt Sun It appears they were sharp enough to have bought up and/or quashed pacbellsucks.com and pacbellsucks.net: http://www.google.com/search?&q=pacbellsucks+DSL+-pacbellsucks-org ...but then came the .info TLD: (Odd how the more inclusive http://www.google.com/search?&q=pacbellsucks+dial-up+OR+dialup+OR+DSL+-pacbellsu cks-org gives fewer hits.) Google results just suck these days. I really love the way they're ignoring my wildcards in the middle of phrases. Reminds me of Clippy. >Notice that Ippolito took it upon _himself_ to stop a legal >transmission which I'm paying good money to supposedly be able to do. > >What do y'all think about that? I have no problem with that, it just sounds like a bit of friendly advice to me. He's merely restating accepted Usenet practice. BTW, it's also considered bad netiquette to crosspost excessively (I had to resend this message because of "non-existent newsgroups"). If I were testing my Usenet access, I'd just send a regular message, or reply to an existing thread. If the message doesn't appear in my normal newsfeed, then I'd look for it at Google Groups. BTW, I don't necessarily agree with all the netiquette guidelines, but I observe them anyway. I reckon if I can annoy the least number of people my life will be a lot easier. - Franc Zabkar SignaturePlease remove one 's' from my address when replying by email. >>Notice that Ippolito took it upon _himself_ to stop a legal >>transmission which I'm paying good money to supposedly be able to do. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >I have no problem with that, it just sounds like a bit of friendly >advice to me. --- Friendly advice is one thing, blocking a legitimate post is quite another. --- >He's merely restating accepted Usenet practice. --- No, accepted Usenet practice is _not_ cancelling a post because of a breach of netiquette. --- >BTW, it's also considered bad netiquette to crosspost excessively (I had to >resend this message because of "non-existent newsgroups"). --- Just because your ISP doesn't carry sbcglobal.help.tech.newsgroups doesn't mean it doesn't exist. --- >If I were testing my Usenet access, I'd just send a regular message, >or reply to an existing thread. If the message doesn't appear in my >normal newsfeed, then I'd look for it at Google Groups. BTW, I don't >necessarily agree with all the netiquette guidelines, but I observe >them anyway. I reckon if I can annoy the least number of people my >life will be a lot easier. --- Yeah, goos idea. That makes it _really_ convenient for whoever's pushing you into the oven. SignatureJohn Fields > >>Notice that Ippolito took it upon _himself_ to stop a legal > >>transmission which I'm paying good money to supposedly be able to do. [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > Yeah, goos idea. That makes it _really_ convenient for whoever's > pushing you into the oven. Is that 'goos idea' a Freudian slip?? > -- > John Fields >> --- >> Yeah, goos idea. That makes it _really_ convenient for whoever's >> pushing you into the oven. > >Is that 'goos idea' a Freudian slip?? --- Just a trypo, AFAIK... What would it refer to if it was Freudian? SignatureJohn Fields I read in sci.electronics.design that John Fields <jfields@austininstrum ents.com> wrote (in <tevl31d7hifd06bbarahutdhrnc1k8afiq@4ax.com>) about 'Newsgroup Nazi', on Fri, 18 Mar 2005: >>> --- >>> Yeah, goos idea. That makes it _really_ convenient for whoever's [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >What would it refer to if it was Freudian? Well, you might well push a goose into the oven. Alternatively, someone might goose YOU, so that you projected yourself into the oven. SignatureRegards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. There are two sides to every question, except 'What is a Moebius strip?' http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk >I read in sci.electronics.design that John Fields <jfields@austininstrum >ents.com> wrote (in <tevl31d7hifd06bbarahutdhrnc1k8afiq@4ax.com>) about [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >Well, you might well push a goose into the oven. Alternatively, someone >might goose YOU, so that you projected yourself into the oven. --- Ah, yesss... That would make _me_ the butt of the joke!^) SignatureJohn Fields >>> --- >>> Yeah, goos idea. That makes it _really_ convenient for whoever's [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > What would it refer to if it was Freudian? I got "goose step"... >>>> --- >>>> Yeah, goos idea. That makes it _really_ convenient for whoever's [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >I got "goose step"... --- That would be closer to Hitler than to Freud, no? SignatureJohn Fields >>>>> Yeah, goos idea. That makes it _really_ convenient for whoever's >>>>> pushing you into the oven. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > --- > That would be closer to Hitler than to Freud, no? Strange, but both were Austrian. As is Schwarzenegger. Signatureciao Ban Bordighera, Italy > >>>>> Yeah, goos idea. That makes it _really_ convenient for whoever's > >>>>> pushing you into the oven. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > ciao Ban > Bordighera, Italy Hey, Ban, I thought about you the other day. I had to go in an office and pick up a Dell PC to repair - had lines across the screen. I didn't notice anything when I picked it up, and I got it back to the shop and swapped the MoBo. I got it running, but it locked up halfway thru the boot-up several times. I finally found that the CPU was overheating, so I reinstalled the heatsink. The rubber pad wasn't fully seated onto the CPU and it overheated. I got that fixed, let it run over the weekend and Monday morning it was still behaving itself. I took it back over to the office and reinstalled it, and got thru and looked up, and lo and behold, I saw on the wall this copy of a famous painting, with "Bordighera - Claude Monet" underneath it. Click on the picture for a larger view. http://shop.store.yahoo.com/tamsquare-oil-painting/oilpainborcl.html Kind of weird, like.. Of course that may have been painted a hundred years ago. > I saw on the wall > this copy of a famous painting, with "Bordighera - Claude Monet" [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Kind of weird, like.. Of course that may have been painted a hundred > years ago. I think it was painted in 1884, when Monet was on a 2-year vacation. He painted 36 pictures during that time. Bordighera is one of the most famous sea-baths in Italy, Queen Margherita had her summer residence here. You still find the view of Monet unaltered, tho the city has been growing into the lower parts, which in those times were covered with orange and lemon trees. Now there are around 12000 inhabitants, most of which only come in the holidays. The Côte d'Azur has been an inspiring area for many painters: Picasso, Miro and Chagall lived in Nice, just 30 mls away. And we have the famous film festival in Cannes and of course the Formula 1 race in Monte Carlo, Monaco. This country can be seen from here just across the bay. If anyone wants to visit this area, just drop me a mail, maybe we can meet for a glass of wine. Signatureciao Ban Bordighera, Italy >>>Notice that Ippolito took it upon _himself_ to stop a legal >>>transmission which I'm paying good money to supposedly be able to do. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >Just because your ISP doesn't carry sbcglobal.help.tech.newsgroups >doesn't mean it doesn't exist. That's not the point. If you had crossposted to 100 newsgroups, then nearly everybody who responded to your message (who was an Agent user) would have had their reply bounce. >>If I were testing my Usenet access, I'd just send a regular message, >>or reply to an existing thread. If the message doesn't appear in my [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Yeah, goos idea. That makes it _really_ convenient for whoever's >pushing you into the oven. Standards exist for a good reason. For example, I like to drive on the left side of the road, but when I visit the USA I defer to local custom. Sometimes there really is no room for individual expression ... BTW, you are not alone with your NG problems. Many years ago I was with an ISP called OneNet. NoneNet had not allocated enough disc capacity to their Usenet service, which meant that more often than not I was unable to post messages. When my posts did go through, they were not being relayed to the wider Internet, which meant that only other NoneNet users were seeing them. A visit to the Usenet archives at DejaNews confirmed my suspicions. - Franc Zabkar SignaturePlease remove one 's' from my address when replying by email. >>--- >>Just because your ISP doesn't carry sbcglobal.help.tech.newsgroups [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >nearly everybody who responded to your message (who was an Agent user) >would have had their reply bounce. --- I can't imagine why. I use Agent and I've often replied to messages crossposted by other Agent users with no problems. Or even to other Agent users _with_ problems. ;) --- >>>If I were testing my Usenet access, I'd just send a regular message, >>>or reply to an existing thread. If the message doesn't appear in my [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >custom. Sometimes there really is no room for individual expression >... --- Driving on the right side (as opposed to the wrong side;)) of the road over here isn't just a good idea and a local custom, it's the law. Posting a test message to non-test newsgroups isn't against any law, and whether it's identified as a test or disguised as something else, the fact remains it's a test message. --- >BTW, you are not alone with your NG problems. Many years ago I was >with an ISP called OneNet. NoneNet had not allocated enough disc [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >NoneNet users were seeing them. A visit to the Usenet archives at >DejaNews confirmed my suspicions. --- Ok, but that's wildly different from singling out one post and refusing to broadcast it because of one individual's objection to the contents of the subject line. SignatureJohn Fields > Ok, but that's wildly different from singling out one post and refusing to > broadcast it because of one individual's objection to the contents of the > subject line. And worse, what if it's a "real" post, but mentions test equipment in the subject line? Do they dump that one too? Thanks, Rich >> Ok, but that's wildly different from singling out one post and refusing to >> broadcast it because of one individual's objection to the contents of the >> subject line. > >And worse, what if it's a "real" post, but mentions test equipment in >the subject line? Do they dump that one too? --- From the email I got, I got the sense that my post had been read by a human and then blocked but, for sure, I don't know. An interesting aside to all of this is that there seems to be no traffic _at all_ on the NG from which I posted the test message, news://sbcglobal.help.tech.newsgroups nor even a machine-generated acknowledgement of a complaint I posted to abuse@prodigy.com SignatureJohn Fields Personally, I'd take a sip of my martini, and post his response as a test message. Then, I'd take another sip of my martini. > I've had a DSL line for a year or so, supplied by SBC Internet > Services, and I'm really pleased with it. I was using another ISP for [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > Thank You, [snip] > Notice that Ippolito took it upon _himself_ to stop a legal > transmission which I'm paying good money to supposedly be able to do. > > What do y'all think about that? I think it's unconscionable. Tearing people a new a*hole for posting test messages in this group is OUR job, not his. ;-) SignaturePaul Hovnanian mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com ------------------------------------------------------------------ It's easier said than done. ... and if you don't believe it, try proving that it's easier done than said, and you'll see that it's easier said that `it's easier done than said' than it is done, which really proves that it's easier said than done. >[snip] > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >;-) --- Precisely!-) SignatureJohn Fields > Notice that Ippolito took it upon _himself_ to stop a legal > transmission which I'm paying good money to supposedly be able to > do. Since many of us saw it he didn't stop the original propagation, probably issued a later cancel. Third party cancels are themselves often regarded as poor netiquette. You missed something though John. Your post was entitled 'Short message'. In order for your ISP to know that it was a test post they must have examined the *content* of the post. This is a dangerous thing for an ISP to do, because all posts they propagate may reasonably be assumed to have been seen by them and they are satisfied that no posts have an illegal content. Therefore they lay themselves open to prosecution if a post is subsequently the cause of legal action. My ISP makes a big fuss about never looking at the content of a post. In this way they maintain their status as a common carrier (like the post office). SignatureTony Williams. >> Notice that Ippolito took it upon _himself_ to stop a legal >> transmission which I'm paying good money to supposedly be able to [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > to know that it was a test post they must have > examined the *content* of the post. --- Actually, that was a second post which I sent which I knew wouldn't be cancelled, because the subject wasn't "test". The first post, which _did_ have "test" as the subject was the one that was cancelled. --- > This is a dangerous thing for an ISP to do, because > all posts they propagate may reasonably be assumed > to have been seen by them and they are satisfied > that no posts have an illegal content. Therefore > they lay themselves open to prosecution if a post > is subsequently the cause of legal action. --- Yes, I agree. In this case however, since I've paid to use their Usenet server(s) and have committed no illegal acts with respect to that usage, theft of service would seem to me to be the cause for legal action. --- > My ISP makes a big fuss about never looking at the > content of a post. In this way they maintain their > status as a common carrier (like the post office). --- A good policy, IMO, and it frees them from the daunting task of having to read (or machine filter for content followed by a human read) every post that goes through them. SignatureJohn Fields > > You missed something though John. Your post was > > entitled 'Short message'. In order for your ISP > > to know that it was a test post they must have > > examined the *content* of the post. > Actually, that was a second post which I sent which I knew > wouldn't be cancelled, because the subject wasn't "test". The > first post, which _did_ have "test" as the subject was the one > that was cancelled. They were probably ok to remark on it then. > ......... In this case however, since I've paid to use their > Usenet server(s) and have committed no illegal acts with respect > to that usage, theft of service would seem to me to be the cause > for legal action. Third party cancellation is a very sensitive subject on usenet, as you can see from your own reaction to it. They should never be issued lightly, even by an ISP. Whether they were right to cancel the post depends on the AUP you agreed to, and/or the Charters of all the groups you crossposted to. You'll get nowhere legally. Just vote with your feet. SignatureTony Williams. > In order for your ISP > to know that it was a test post they must have [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > content of a post. In this way they maintain their > status as a common carrier (like the post office). I would like to see *all* ISPs filter content that contains spam, racial vilification, malware, binary attachments (in non-binary NGs), and other inappropriate content. If the law needs to be rewritten for modern times, then so be it. BTW, John, it appears that your newsgroup access is working. It's a shame we aren't discussing something more pertinent. ;-) - Franc Zabkar SignaturePlease remove one 's' from my address when replying by email. >> In order for your ISP >> to know that it was a test post they must have [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > >- Franc Zabkar We have true freedom of speech in this country, so any blocking or censoring anything other than advertising is guaranteed to get you sued. Your "inappropriate content" may be my tasty morsel. We've had several court rulings here which say you have no legal protection against being offended. About the only "content" laws that hold up against challenge are those that limit what minors may be exposed to. ...Jim Thompson | James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | | | E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat | | http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food. >>> In order for your ISP >>> to know that it was a test post they must have [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >censoring anything other than advertising is guaranteed to get you >sued. I beg to differ. What you have in your country is a litigious society, as do we, but you do not have true freedom of speech. Otherwise, why would someone like Michael Moore need to go to the BBC before he could tell Americans "The Awful Truth"? The fact is, even though your constitution grants you certain rights, a dissenting voice is rarely given the opportunity to be heard. >Your "inappropriate content" may be my tasty morsel. We've had >several court rulings here which say you have no legal protection >against being offended. We have laws against inciting violence and racial hatred, for example. I would think such legislation should be a basic requirement of any civilised jurisdiction. >About the only "content" laws that hold up against challenge are those >that limit what minors may be exposed to. > > ...Jim Thompson - Franc Zabkar SignaturePlease remove one 's' from my address when replying by email. >>We have true freedom of speech in this country, so any blocking or >>censoring anything other than advertising is guaranteed to get you [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >constitution grants you certain rights, a dissenting voice is rarely >given the opportunity to be heard. --- We have true freedom of speech, but there is no requirement placed on the media to broadcast speech they choose not to. --- >>Your "inappropriate content" may be my tasty morsel. We've had >>several court rulings here which say you have no legal protection [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >I would think such legislation should be a basic requirement of any >civilised jurisdiction. --- We have similar legislation, but it's a shame that either of our "civilized" societies should have the need for that kind of legislation. SignatureJohn Fields > >>We have true freedom of speech in this country, so any blocking or > >>censoring anything other than advertising is guaranteed to get you [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > "civilized" societies should have the need for that kind of > legislation. You're doing a great deal of arguing about the American way with an Australian. It doesn't make a lot of sense, and neither do any of their newsgroups lately. After all that savage crap I took in one of those groups when Afghanistan hit the fan and having seen more than a few current trolls that make ours look rather weak, arguing socialism vs. whatever we call our system really invites your exposure to sour grapes. You can't win that argument, and it involves two alien societies who can't cross very well, or at least a subsection of it. Spare yourself, or resign to face many of these threads, to your pain and woe and utter dismay. >> In order for your ISP >> to know that it was a test post they must have [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >and other inappropriate content. If the law needs to be rewritten for >modern times, then so be it. --- IMO, if there's any legislation to be enacted, it should penalize the perpetrators, not the ISP's. After all, they're just providing access to the network and can't be made responsible for the idiocy of some of its users. To legislate against them would be to find a company providing public transportation an accessory to murder because someone took the bus to a liquor store and then robbed and killed the owner of the store. --- >BTW, John, it appears that your newsgroup access is working. It's a >shame we aren't discussing something more pertinent. ;-) --- It's working because I blew off Prodigy and their provincial bullshit and hooked up with Giganews. SignatureJohn Fields >>> In order for your ISP >>> to know that it was a test post they must have [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >took the bus to a liquor store and then robbed and killed the owner of >the store. I agree with you in principle, although I don't think ISPs should be absolved completely. For example, they should not be allowed to turn a blind eye to illegal activity, eg anonymous spam remailing. My own ISP offers a spam filtering service which I find extremely beneficial as it traps a lot of malware. Optusnet also combats bulk emailers by limiting the number of emails a user can transmit at any one time. My email client has a "mood watch" feature which flags incoming and outgoing messages that may have objectionable content. Some ISPs also have this feature. On one occasion I emailed a particular ISP to complain about a user who was using their facilities to vilify others, but my email was rejected because the ISP's email server decided that the quoted abuse was too objectionable for their own employees to read. I had to misspell the offending words to bypass this filter. >>BTW, John, it appears that your newsgroup access is working. It's a >>shame we aren't discussing something more pertinent. ;-) > >--- >It's working because I blew off Prodigy and their provincial bullshit >and hooked up with Giganews. - Franc Zabkar SignaturePlease remove one 's' from my address when replying by email. > What do y'all think about that? He's saying "Do you feel lucky, Punk" Well, you can leave it well be or you can duke it out with BOFH (provided you do not really need your internet connection, do not have anything in the way of services/data storage at the ISP and your ethernet connection is well isolated, you stand on a rubber mat while using the computer and your computers earth connection is sound ;-) BOFH - Bastard Operator From Hell; Alias: Abaddon, lives in alt.sysadmin.*, lurks on root accounts: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=BOFH I read in sci.electronics.design that John Fields <jfields@austininstrum ents.com> wrote (in <12bj315kqurrphd28bfv8bjg9nn6nb9ppp@4ax.com>) about 'Newsgroup Nazi', on Thu, 17 Mar 2005: >Notice that Ippolito took it upon _himself_ to stop a legal >transmission which I'm paying good money to supposedly be able to do. > >What do y'all think about that? Did you check the header to see if there is any evidence that it's a wind-up? SignatureRegards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. There are two sides to every question, except 'What is a Moebius strip?' http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk >I read in sci.electronics.design that John Fields <jfields@austininstrum >ents.com> wrote (in <12bj315kqurrphd28bfv8bjg9nn6nb9ppp@4ax.com>) about [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Did you check the header to see if there is any evidence that it's a >wind-up? --- Yes, and I also sent a copy of the message and the headers to "abuse at prodigy.com", where Ippolito's post originated. (prodigy.com, that is) No response so far... SignatureJohn Fields |
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