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Electronics Forum / Electrical Engineering / October 2009Flat battery and booster battery problem
I'm in the UK. Car is 1.3 litre. QUESTION (1) I know this may not be the best way of doing it but, in theory, if a car battery got flattened by leaving the headlights on then why would a fully charged second battery attached in parallel to the flat battery give almost no help at all? It's was almost as if the second battery lost nearly all its charge to the flat battery. Can someone explain what is happening with the battery charge please. QUESTION (2) If that's so then, to get the car started, is it absolutely necessary to put a charger on the flat battery which is in the car? > I'm in the UK. Car is 1.3 litre. > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > absolutely necessary to put a charger on the flat battery which is > in the car? the booster battery may have been flat? Was it one of those portable emergency start ones? The battery in those is tiny and rarely last more than a year. Additionally the cables and connectors are often quite insubstantial. Assuming that the battery booster pack you are trying to use is in good condition then it is necessary to connect the booster pack correctly and then leave it for about five minutes to transfer some charge into the flat battery. Then try and start it. >> I'm in the UK. Car is 1.3 litre. >> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > to transfer some charge into the flat battery. Then try and > start it. The booster battery was a proper charged up battery and not part of a special emergency "unit". I'll try it with the five minute arangement. >>> I'm in the UK. Car is 1.3 litre. >>> [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > I'll try it with the five minute arangement. then probably the jumper cables were a bit on the weak side, so a connect up for a few minutes should do the job. It is quite possible in emergency to jump start a car using thin bits of household flex, just leave them connected for half an hour or so (then remove the cables) and enough charge will have transfered to start it up. They even make a dedicated jump start device that just plugs into the cigarette lighteres of the dead car and a good one, you leave those connected for about twenty minutes till the light goes green and away it should go. Cigarette lighter circuits can only carry a few amps in any case, so it is all done by transfer over some time. > It is quite possible in emergency to jump start a car using thin bits of > household flex, just leave them connected for half an hour or so (then > remove the cables) and enough charge will have transfered to start it > up. That's true if using a car to jump start from and you leave the engine running. Just coupling two batteries together won't really charge the flat one by much.  Signature*Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >> It is quite possible in emergency to jump start a car using thin >> bits of household flex, just leave them connected for half an hour [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > running. Just coupling two batteries together won't really charge the > flat one by much. it works with a battery pack and is the official way to use them, so some charge does transfer even without one being on charge. > >> It is quite possible in emergency to jump start a car using thin > >> bits of household flex, just leave them connected for half an hour [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > running. Just coupling two batteries together won't really charge the > > flat one by much. > it works with a battery pack and is the official way to use them, so > some charge does transfer even without one being on charge. It really depends. If, as the OP says, a battery has been run totally flat under load it's likely sulphated and will need a much higher voltage at low current trickle for a long time to help reverse the process. Maybe even days. Signature*If you remember the '60s, you weren't really there Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. > QUESTION (1) I know this may not be the best way of doing it but, in > theory, if a car battery got flattened by leaving the headlights on > then why would a fully charged second battery attached in parallel > to the flat battery give almost no help at all? 1) You're using those stupid cheapass thin jumpleads 2) The flat battery presents a high load to the second battery. > QUESTION (2) If that's so then, to get the car started, is it > absolutely necessary to put a charger on the flat battery which is > in the car? Far better to to use decent jump leads and possibly remove the earth terminal on the flat battery until its running then replace without turning off the car, assuming that's an option. SignatureConor www.notebooks-r-us.co.uk I'm not prejudiced. I hate everybody equally. > I'm in the UK. Car is 1.3 litre. > QUESTION (1) I know this may not be the best way of doing it but, in > theory, if a car battery got flattened by leaving the headlights on > then why would a fully charged second battery attached in parallel > to the flat battery give almost no help at all? > It's was almost as if the second battery lost nearly all its charge > to the flat battery. > Can someone explain what is happening with the battery charge > please. If the second battery is good it means the connection between them isn't. Most jump leads are incapable of carrying the full starter current. Ones which can cost upwards of 50 quid. > QUESTION (2) If that's so then, to get the car started, is it > absolutely necessary to put a charger on the flat battery which is > in the car? If the battery isn't permanently knackered through being run totally flat, another car connected to it and the engine run for a while might then charge it enough. But an overnight charge with a charger is a better bet. Lidl have some decent ones in at the moment for only 14 quid. Small enough to keep in the car. Signature*Go the extra mile. It makes your boss look like an incompetent slacker * Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. > In article > <Xns9CA4517B8AA07F3QA2@newsfarm.iad.highwinds-media.com>, [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > them isn't. Most jump leads are incapable of carrying the full > starter current. Ones which can cost upwards of 50 quid. The jump leads have worked well in the past but they're not £50+ leads! Maybe this time the spare battery is having to provide even more power than the times in the past. >> QUESTION (2) If that's so then, to get the car started, is it >> absolutely necessary to put a charger on the flat battery [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > ones in at the moment for only 14 quid. Small enough to keep in > the car. "Pernanently knackered through being run totally flat"? Can it be permanent? Is there an simple way to test this without going to a garage? > "Pernanently knackered through being run totally flat"? Can it be > permanent? Is there an simple way to test this without going to > a garage? Go to a motor factors that sells batteries. Most will do a free test. Halfords, if you must, but they'll rob you blind for the new one... >> "Pernanently knackered through being run totally flat"? Can it be >> permanent? Is there an simple way to test this without going to a >> garage? > Go to a motor factors that sells batteries. Most will do a free test. > Halfords, if you must, but they'll rob you blind for the new one... You're missing the point - the battery is flat. Deal with that problem first and then the car can be driven to places you suggest. >>> "Pernanently knackered through being run totally flat"? Can it be >>> permanent? Is there an simple way to test this without going to a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > You're missing the point - the battery is flat. Deal with that problem > first and then the car can be driven to places you suggest. Indeed, but the question was 'how can the battery be tested'. If the OP gets the car started, she can then go and have the battery tested. Others have offered plenty of advice on getting it started. > > If the second battery is good it means the connection between > > them isn't. Most jump leads are incapable of carrying the full > > starter current. Ones which can cost upwards of 50 quid. > The jump leads have worked well in the past but they're not £50+ > leads! Maybe this time the spare battery is having to provide > even more power than the times in the past. If the battery isn't totally flat it will provide some of the current needed. It's totally flat ones that sort out the jump leads. ;-) > > >> QUESTION (2) If that's so then, to get the car started, is it [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > ones in at the moment for only 14 quid. Small enough to keep in > > the car. > "Pernanently knackered through being run totally flat"? Can it be > permanent? Is there an simple way to test this without going to > a garage? Try charging it. If it takes a charge you might be ok. Signature*Work is for people who don't know how to fish. Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >> the car. > > "Pernanently knackered through being run totally flat"? Can it be > permanent? Is there an simple way to test this without going to > a garage? A lead-acid battery that has been run completely flat will never be quite as good as it was before, but if it was in good shape before and wasn't flat for too long, it should mostly recover. Most auto parts stores will test batteries for free, otherwise if the car cranks fine on a cold morning then the battery is probably fine. On Oct 14, 5:05 am, "Dave Plowman (News)" <d...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote: > In article <Xns9CA4517B8AA07F3...@newsfarm.iad.highwinds-media.com>, > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > Dave Plowman d...@davenoise.co.uk London SW > To e-mail, change noise into sound. Qué is la Quid -- Tom Horne > On Oct 14, 5:05 am, "Dave Plowman (News)" <d...@davenoise.co.uk> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Qué is la Quid google is your friend > On Oct 14, 5:05 am, "Dave Plowman (News)" <d...@davenoise.co.uk> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > - Show quoted text - WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE FOOLING WASN'T IT YOU THAT ALMOST BURNED DOWN THAT FARMERS HOUSE AND WHAT ABOUT YOUR MISGUIDED COMMENTARIES ABOUT GROUNDING AND BONDING THAT HAVE COST THE LIVES OF US ARMY MEN AND WOMEN ABROAD IN IRAQ STAY OFF AND OUT OF THIS GROUP TROLL MASTER YOU TOO SHOULD BE SUMMONED AND PROSECUTED FOR YOUR UNAUTHORIZED COVERT ACTIVITIES THAT HAS COST LIVES PROPERTY AND DATA LOSS STEP DOWN AND REMOVE YOUR ACCOUNT BEFORE IT IS DONE FOR YOU I AM PROTEUS Proteus IIV <proteusiiv@gmail.com> gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: > WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE FOOLING > WASN'T IT YOU THAT ALMOST BURNED DOWN THAT FARMERS HOUSE [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > I AM PROTEUS <raises eyebrows> Blimey. Makes our usual loons look almost sane. Even Duhg. >Proteus IIV <proteusiiv@gmail.com> gurgled happily, sounding much like >they were saying: [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] ><raises eyebrows> >Blimey. Makes our usual loons look almost sane. Even Duhg. Not familiar with your group, but that hits here as funny anyway. Hilarious, in fact. Hunt up his posts, and you will find that his IQ has raised a few points over the last year or so. Yes... it has to be at least 20 by now. > Proteus IIV <proteus...@gmail.com> gurgled happily, sounding much like > they were saying: [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I GRIND MACHINES DO NOT GURGLE BURRRPP GLAD I COULD OBLIGE YOUR FRAIL AND DECAYING HUMANITY SOME WATT OR ANOTHER I AM PROTEUS >> Proteus IIV <proteus...@gmail.com> gurgled happily, sounding much like >> they were saying: [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > >I AM PROTEUS OK. I'll see if I can discern its language. f.ck OFF PROTEUS. SignatureIan D > On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 18:04:59 -0700 (PDT), Proteus IIV > [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > - Show quoted text - LISTEN UP DOUCHEBAG GET THE FLUX OFF THIS USENET YOUR ANUS IS MINE DON'T MAKE ME DESTROY IT I AM PROTEUS >AND WHAT ABOUT YOUR MISGUIDED COMMENTARIES ABOUT GROUNDING AND BONDING >THAT HAVE COST THE LIVES OF US ARMY MEN AND WOMEN ABROAD IN IRAQ You're a goddamned idiot, RoyTard. Perhaps HIS complaint to gmail will get your pathetic account curtailed. I think if we got with google, and told them what you are about, they would play along killing off your accounts almost daily. Surely after only a few iterations, you would explode into a suicidal, all caps death throe. One can only dream about such things, because idiots like you proliferate all of society, so the retarded twit at gmail probably tolerates your retarded behavior. I hope he finds your a.s, and reams it open with a long fish line. We could hang you out on the water with it, and even the hungry sharks would pass by your rotted hulk. >STEP DOWN AND REMOVE YOUR ACCOUNT BEFORE IT IS DONE FOR YOU Maybe a few of us should organize to pay YOU a visit. Maybe then you would learn about the sh.t you spew, and how it can get your retarded a.s in a sling, boy. > I'm in the UK. Car is 1.3 litre. > > QUESTION (1) I know this may not be the best way of doing it but, in > theory, if a car battery got flattened by leaving the headlights on > then why would a fully charged second battery attached in parallel > to the flat battery give almost no help at all? Jump leads not making electrical contact. Some cheap ones have insufficient metal in the plastic jaws and I've come across ones where the rest of the plastic prevents metal to metal contact. Get a torch and take a good look when you have them 'attached'. It's probably not connecting ... SignatureAdrian C >> I'm in the UK. Car is 1.3 litre. >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > contact. Get a torch and take a good look when you have them > 'attached'. It's probably not connecting ... I wondered about the area of contact because the clips had a sort of lipped shape on each surface which meant the contact area was a metal edge. IYSWIM. It didn't seem much to me. But if the area is too small then wouldn't the jump lead clip get hot where it did make contact? >>> I'm in the UK. Car is 1.3 litre. >>> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > too small then wouldn't the jump lead clip get hot where it did make > contact? cheap leads often corrode where the cables meet the clips and no contact results. A good healthy crackle as you connect the final clip shows something is moving, then just leave them connected for a while before trying to start the dead one. > QUESTION (1) I know this may not be the best way of doing it but, in > theory, if a car battery got flattened by leaving the headlights on > then why would a fully charged second battery attached in parallel > to the flat battery give almost no help at all? The battery on your car has an internal short? The battery on you car has been discharged too far? > In article <Xns9CA4517B8AA07F3...@newsfarm.iad.highwinds-media.com>, > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > The battery on you car has been discharged too far? ONE OF THE PLATES SEEMS FRIED FROM HERE I AM PROTEUS |
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