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Carbon pills for keypad

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TonyMatthews - 29 Jul 2008 22:37 GMT
Hello
I am trying to make a rubber keypad for one of my projects. I have
tried mixing graphite with the rubber to make conductive buttons but
with little success. I have also spent a lot of time looking on the
net for a source for the "carbon pills" the pros use. I am here asking
if anyone else has solved this problem? A source of pills or a method
of making them? Thanks in advance for any info.
Tony
Tim Wescott - 29 Jul 2008 23:03 GMT
> Hello
>  I am trying to make a rubber keypad for one of my projects. I have
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> of making them? Thanks in advance for any info.
> Tony

That's probably one of those things that you can get just fine if you're
in China and making a bajillion pieces.

Your best bet may be to find a product that uses them and scavenge them.

For something that doesn't need a long lifetime I have heard reports of
folks cutting what they need out of black conductive foam, but it does
break down over time.

Signature

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

TonyMatthews - 29 Jul 2008 23:06 GMT
Yes that is the problem exactly. I find sources for them overseas. In
large quantities. I am looking for a few hundred or so. Maybe a
thousand pieces at a time. Foam is ok but as you say it breaks down.
Tony

>> Hello
>>  I am trying to make a rubber keypad for one of my projects. I have
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>folks cutting what they need out of black conductive foam, but it does
>break down over time.
chrisgj198@googlemail.com - 29 Jul 2008 23:43 GMT
> Yes that is the problem exactly. I find sources for them overseas. In
> large quantities. I am looking for a few hundred or so. Maybe a
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> >folks cutting what they need out of black conductive foam, but it does
> >break down over time.

Would these products do?

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=rubber+keypad+%22repair+kit+%22

Chris
TonyMatthews - 30 Jul 2008 00:46 GMT
Thanks for the reply
I have tried it. Applying it to rubber directly leaves a pad that is
not very durable. Repairing an existing pad may work but I have no pad
to repair.
Tony

>> Yes that is the problem exactly. I find sources for them overseas. In
>> large quantities. I am looking for a few hundred or so. Maybe a
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
>Chris
Jamie - 30 Jul 2008 02:50 GMT
> Thanks for the reply
>  I have tried it. Applying it to rubber directly leaves a pad that is
> not very durable. Repairing an existing pad may work but I have no pad
> to repair.
> Tony

Material that can be used to construct a tab.
http://www.everydaymedical.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=364

http://www.intermark-usa.com/products/EMC/Gaskets/CSR.shtml

P.S.
 I got 450K for carbon rubber.

http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"
Martin Riddle - 30 Jul 2008 01:44 GMT
| Hello
| I am trying to make a rubber keypad for one of my projects. I have
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
| of making them? Thanks in advance for any info.
| Tony

GC Copper paint?

Cheers
Joerg - 30 Jul 2008 02:15 GMT
> Hello
>  I am trying to make a rubber keypad for one of my projects. I have
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> of making them? Thanks in advance for any info.
> Tony

Someone here posted a source a long time ago where you could buy generic
keys. Unless you need a gazillion the other best bet might be to trudge
over to Walmart or the Dollar store and see whether there is a gadget
that has as many rubber keys as possible at the lowest cost.

Signature

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

TonyMatthews - 30 Jul 2008 22:36 GMT
Hi
If you recall the url please post it. Thanks
Tony

>> Hello
>>  I am trying to make a rubber keypad for one of my projects. I have
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>over to Walmart or the Dollar store and see whether there is a gadget
>that has as many rubber keys as possible at the lowest cost.
Joerg - 31 Jul 2008 16:56 GMT
> Hi
>  If you recall the url please post it. Thanks
> Tony

Ok, did a quick search. This was the thread, didn't remember I started it:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.design/browse_thread/thread/d0616
a0e5b248835/1de4d4178f482611?hl=en&lnk=st&q=rubber+keys+%22analogconsultants%22+
group%3Asci.electronics.design#1de4d4178f482611


And this was the link to the mfg of the generic keypad that can be cut
up but the link is dead:
http://www.ittcannon.com/media/pdf/catalogs/e22.23.pdf

Just contact ITT cannon and ask, maybe they still make them.

>>> Hello
>>>  I am trying to make a rubber keypad for one of my projects. I have
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>> over to Walmart or the Dollar store and see whether there is a gadget
>> that has as many rubber keys as possible at the lowest cost.

Signature

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

John Fields - 30 Jul 2008 14:03 GMT
>Hello
> I am trying to make a rubber keypad for one of my projects. I have
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>if anyone else has solved this problem? A source of pills or a method
>of making them? Thanks in advance for any info.

---
Try these guys:

http://www.chomerics.com/

and, in particular:

http://www.chomerics.com/products/emi_family.htm

JF
TonyMatthews - 30 Jul 2008 22:54 GMT
Hi JF
Thanks for the link. I will study what they offer. Perhaps something
can be made from a strip.
Tony

>>Hello
>> I am trying to make a rubber keypad for one of my projects. I have
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
>JF
Jeff Liebermann - 31 Jul 2008 02:16 GMT
> I am trying to make a rubber keypad for one of my projects. I have
>tried mixing graphite with the rubber to make conductive buttons but
>with little success. I have also spent a lot of time looking on the
>net for a source for the "carbon pills" the pros use. I am here asking
>if anyone else has solved this problem? A source of pills or a method
>of making them? Thanks in advance for any info.

If you're making your own, it's easier to paint the non-conductive
rubber with something conductive.  You're on the right track, but it's
best to use a commercial product that to try and mix your own.
Methinks that graphite paint (Aquadag) will do the trick.  The stuff
is about 100 ohms per square, which should be more than enough
conductivity to use as a keyboard.  If it doesn't, there's something
wrong with your keyboard scanner and/or detector circuits.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquadag>
<http://www.achesoncolloids.com/NR/rdonlyres/50FEDD73-4B03-475C-9E65-5BA15F649587
/0/Aquadag18.pdf
>
<http://www.achesoncolloids.com>

Signature

Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Phil Hobbs - 31 Jul 2008 15:02 GMT
>> I am trying to make a rubber keypad for one of my projects. I have
>> tried mixing graphite with the rubber to make conductive buttons but
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> <http://www.achesoncolloids.com/NR/rdonlyres/50FEDD73-4B03-475C-9E65-5BA15F649587
/0/Aquadag18.pdf
>
> <http://www.achesoncolloids.com>

DAG is way too fragile for that--it'll crack off and gum up everything
with nasty soft conductive particles.

Making conductive rubber takes a *lot* of carbon--you need a continuous
path of  carbon particles touching each other from end to end.  Think 4
parts carbon, 1 part rubber.

You can use a little bit cut from an antistatic bag, or you might be
able to heat and squash Velostat foam into something usable.

Cheers,

Phil Hobbs
James Arthur - 31 Jul 2008 16:51 GMT
>>> I am trying to make a rubber keypad for one of my projects. I have
>>> tried mixing graphite with the rubber to make conductive buttons but
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>
> Phil Hobbs

I like the anti-static bag idea.  Soot mixed with silicone is another
(idea).

Cheers,
James Arthur
Jeff Liebermann - 31 Jul 2008 18:54 GMT
>>> I am trying to make a rubber keypad for one of my projects. I have
>>> tried mixing graphite with the rubber to make conductive buttons but
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>DAG is way too fragile for that--it'll crack off and gum up everything
>with nasty soft conductive particles.

Yep.  It dries hard and brittle.

I'm trying to recall how we did it, but we shipped a few prototypes
using Aquadag on the rubber keyboards.  I wasn't involved except to
find a bottle of the stuff.  I vaguely recall that the rubber buttons
were either scored with an exacto knife, or molded with a corregated
instead of flat end.  The Aquadag filled in the gaps and was probably
wiped clean to prevent flaking.  There may also have been tinkering
with the formulation, such as mixing it with rubber cement.  Sorry
about the brain fade, but that was 30+ years ago.

There's also Graphit 33 from CRC Industries.
<http://www.crcind.com/csp/web/ProdDisp.csp?lng=3&country=ALL&product=GRAPHIT%203
3&business=ELECTRONIC
>
<http://www.crcind.com/wwwcrc/tds/TKC3%20GRAPHIT33.PDF>
which might be more suitable.  It's also graphite but with an organic
glue binder.  The data sheet claims its suitable for repairing
keyboards.

Also see "conductive ink".
<http://www.atotech.com/carbon-conductive-ink-paste.html>

Incidentally, there's quite a bit of work apparently being done with
graphite ink formulations for making cheap printable circuits, where
the components are formed from various inks and printed using
something like an inkjet printer.  

>Making conductive rubber takes a *lot* of carbon--you need a continuous
>path of  carbon particles touching each other from end to end.  Think 4
>parts carbon, 1 part rubber.

Good idea.  A quick check with Google shows that anti-static bags come
in various resistivities.  Some is a low 100 ohms per square, which
should work just fine.  Others are many thousands of ohms per square,
which won't work.  I just tested a black bag I happen to have around.
Two parallel lines of aluminum tape forming a square.  I got about
300K per square on the outside of the bag.  About 400 ohms per square
on the inside.  Might work, but seems a bit high.

>You can use a little bit cut from an antistatic bag, or you might be
>able to heat and squash Velostat foam into something usable.

There's a point where salvaging an old TV remote control, calculator
keypad, or PC keybaord, might be easier.

If all else fails, just build a keyboard out of layers, or "membrane
switch".  Start with a PCB with the contacts etched onto one side.  On
top of that, goes a sheet of mylar with a circular hole for each
contact as a spacer.  On top of that, goes a sheet of brass or any
manner of metal that will bend, but not stretch (forget about using
aluminum).  If contact isolation is required, as in a matrix keyboard,
use brass disks glued to the mylar spacer sheet.  Push on a disk, and
it bends slightly to contact the PCB.  Nothing conductive on the
rubber parts and no springs anywhere in sight.  A dome in the mylar
sheet adds tactile feedback of sorts and makes it more reliable, but
it will work without it.  That's the way some calculator, alarm, and
"industrial" keyboards are made.

Signature

Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Phil Hobbs - 31 Jul 2008 15:02 GMT
>> I am trying to make a rubber keypad for one of my projects. I have
>> tried mixing graphite with the rubber to make conductive buttons but
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> <http://www.achesoncolloids.com/NR/rdonlyres/50FEDD73-4B03-475C-9E65-5BA15F649587
/0/Aquadag18.pdf
>
> <http://www.achesoncolloids.com>

DAG is way too fragile for that--it'll crack off and gum up everything
with nasty soft conductive particles.

Making conductive rubber takes a *lot* of carbon--you need a continuous
path of  carbon particles touching each other from end to end.  Think 4
parts carbon, 1 part rubber.

You can use a little bit cut from an antistatic bag, or you might be
able to heat and squash Velostat foam into something usable.

Cheers,

Phil Hobbs
Piotr Piatek - 31 Jul 2008 15:49 GMT
> I am trying to make a rubber keypad for one of my projects. I have
>tried mixing graphite with the rubber to make conductive buttons but
>with little success. I have also spent a lot of time looking on the
>net for a source for the "carbon pills" the pros use. I am here asking
>if anyone else has solved this problem? A source of pills or a method
>of making them?

A set of 100 conductive rubber buttons + glue:
http://www.tme.eu/en/katalog/artykuly.phtml?search=RC+GUMSET
TonyMatthews - 31 Jul 2008 21:56 GMT
Thanks Piotr
That is the first source I have seen. I will give them a try.
Tony

>> I am trying to make a rubber keypad for one of my projects. I have
>>tried mixing graphite with the rubber to make conductive buttons but
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>A set of 100 conductive rubber buttons + glue:
>http://www.tme.eu/en/katalog/artykuly.phtml?search=RC+GUMSET
 
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