 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
| HomeDiscussion GroupsElectronicsBasicsRepairDesignCADComponentsEquipmentElectrical Engineering ElectronicsKB.com Contact UsLink To UsSearch & Site Map |
Electronics Forum / Design / July 2008More audiophoolery
As if 'super cables' werent enough in the analog domain: http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3429.asp  SignatureRegards, Adrian Jansen adrianjansen at internode dot on dot net Design Engineer J & K Micro Systems Microcomputer solutions for industrial control Note reply address is invalid, convert address above to machine form. > As if 'super cables' werent enough in the analog domain: > > http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3429.asp It *might* have an effect if the digital signal was going straight to a DAC without being re-clocked. The chances of that, however, are negligible in modern equipment. SignatureDirk http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK Remote Viewing classes in London >> As if 'super cables' werent enough in the analog domain: >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > DAC without being re-clocked. The chances of that, however, are > negligible in modern equipment. "Attention to detail when building this cable was used by employing high quality insulation and woven jacketing to reduce vibration and to add durability." Just what I need, cables that "don't vibrate". Is this a problem? SignatureJoe Leikhim K4SAT "The RFI-EMI-GUY"© "Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason? For if it prosper, none dare call it treason." "Follow The Money" ;-P >>> As if 'super cables' werent enough in the analog domain: >>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Just what I need, cables that "don't vibrate". Is this a problem? Well, playing Devil's Advocate... Sound causes the cable to vibrate and this causes changes in capacitance which induces jitter in the digital signal at the frequency of the sound. etc. SignatureDirk http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff >>>> As if 'super cables' werent enough in the analog domain: >>>> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > which induces jitter in the digital signal at the frequency of the sound. > etc. Not if you buy my granite cable ducts for $300 per linear foot! SignatureJoe Leikhim K4SAT "The RFI-EMI-GUY"© "Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason? For if it prosper, none dare call it treason." "Follow The Money" ;-P > >>> As if 'super cables' werent enough in the analog domain: > >>> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > which induces jitter in the digital signal at the frequency of the sound. > etc. Minutely maybe but that's wny there's there a clever PLL on the receiver with filtering. Graham >"Attention to detail when building this cable was used by employing high >quality insulation and woven jacketing to reduce vibration and to add >durability." > >Just what I need, cables that "don't vibrate". Is this a problem? Also, "Additionally, signal directional markings are provided for optimum signal transfer." The arrow on the pictured cable is a *two-headed* arrow! I guess that's accurate, though. I mean, you wouldn't want someone to accidentally try to transfer a signal sideways across the cable ... ? SignatureWim Lewis <wiml@hhhh.org>, Seattle, WA, USA. PGP keyID 27F772C1 > > As if 'super cables' werent enough in the analog domain: > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > DAC without being re-clocked. The chances of that, however, are > negligible in modern equipment. Exactly so. Graham >As if 'super cables' werent enough in the analog domain: > >http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3429.asp What a bunch low life. SignatureBoris Mohar > >As if 'super cables' werent enough in the analog domain: > > > >http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3429.asp > > What a bunch low life. As a DENON owner from when they brough out some of the best CD players in 1988 and got several awards I truly despair. I'm inclined to complain to theit Chief Executive on principle alone that they could prostitute an excellent brand. It's a Cat 5 cable isn't it ? Graham >>> As if 'super cables' werent enough in the analog domain: >>> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Graham Thats probably the best thing to do -complain to CEO. They do make great equipment. My PMA-630 and TU-630 are still working great all these years. They should leave the pseudo acoustic hype to Monster cable. SignatureJoe Leikhim K4SAT "The RFI-EMI-GUY"© "Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason? For if it prosper, none dare call it treason." "Follow The Money" ;-P >As if 'super cables' werent enough in the analog domain: > >http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3429.asp "Hand crimped by virgins" was missing from the blurb "Hand crimped by Xena" I'll buy it martin >> As if 'super cables' werent enough in the analog domain: >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > martin Nah ! "Hand crimped by Xena" costs an extra $999.00 SignatureRegards, Adrian Jansen adrianjansen at internode dot on dot net Design Engineer J & K Micro Systems Microcomputer solutions for industrial control Note reply address is invalid, convert address above to machine form. > >As if 'super cables' werent enough in the analog domain: > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > I'll buy it You forgot the bit about being made only under a full moon. Graham >As if 'super cables' werent enough in the analog domain: > >http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3429.asp Psssttppt :O ***.. $499.00 !! D from BC British Columbia Canada >>As if 'super cables' werent enough in the analog domain: >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > British Columbia > Canada ..."tin bearing"... That means one could do a similar product *without* tin, crow about the lack of "whiskers" and other spiky audio growth - and add ANOTHER $500 to the price... > As if 'super cables' werent enough in the analog domain: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Microcomputer solutions for industrial control > Note reply address is invalid, convert address above to machine form. So what's your complaint? If you didn't spend the 500 bucks on a cable, you'd probably just blow it on something frivolous, like a decent pair of speakers, or shoes for the kids! > If you didn't spend the 500 bucks on a > cable, you'd probably just blow it on something frivolous, like a > decent pair of speakers, 500 bucks WILL NOT buy you a decent pair of speakers. NO WAY. It's the transducer we haven't yet really tamed. But we're working on it. $5000 would get something fairly good. Graham On Jul 25, 10:06�pm, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> wrote: > jd_l...@yahoo.com wrote: > > �If you didn't spend the 500 bucks on a [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Graham FWIW, I own a pair of Rowland unamplified studio monitors that I'm pretty sure were under $500, or very close to it when I purchased them 5 or 6 years ago. AWESOME sound! They are ported with about a 6.5" mid/bass and a seperate tweeter. (Bookshelf type format). If anybody wants a model number, I'll look it up on Monday. They are in my recording studio. I've owned a lot of speakers over the years, even some real Trip- sevens from back in the day (plus lots of JBL, etc..) These are right up there, and for the price - I don't know if they can be beat? I'm sure they're still in production. > > jd_l...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > If you didn't spend the 500 bucks on a [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > right up there, and for the price - I don't know if they can be beat? > I'm sure they're still in production. That's very good value for $500. I liked many of the early Missions but even they weren't that cheap and that was in the 80s ! Graham > As if 'super cables' werent enough in the analog domain: > > http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3429.asp What do you suppose this means?: "Additionally, signal directional markings are provided for optimum signal transfer." Was I asleep in class, or what? -mpm > > As if 'super cables' werent enough in the analog domain: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > signal transfer." > Was I asleep in class, or what? I think it must be Denon's way of saying that they make this cable to extract money from the kind of nitwits who buy super-cable, but sensible customers shouldn't bother. -- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen > > As if 'super cables' werent enough in the analog domain: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > -mpm A possibility is the shield only goes to connector, hence the directionality. The idea is not to have the shield conduct current, which some say makes the shield less effective. Hardly important with digital signals. To be clear, ground is established with one of the inner wires. "What do you suppose this means?: "Additionally, signal directional markings are provided for optimum signal transfer." Was I asleep in class, or what?" Directional markings have long been a staple of "super high-end" audiophool cables. The idea is that they're aligned with (or maybe opposite, who knows?) the way the copper was pulled, and therefore there's a "preferred" direction of signal propagation. It's all bollocks, of course. > "What do you suppose this means?: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > It's all bollocks, of course. Without doubt. I can remember blind tests being run to inspect whether people can really tell when a reproduced audio signal has been inverted with respect to the original sound wave it represents. It appears some insist that the sound of a bass-drum hit, for example, is perceptibly different when reproduced inverted ("it sucks, doesn't it?"). As I recall, the tests didn't uncover any ability to distinguish between non-inverted and inverted for music and speech typical of broadcasting. Chris PS: this is not about inversion of one half of a stereo pair - for stereo, it is about inversion of both channels simultaneously. > "What do you suppose this means?: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > It's all bollocks, of course. There is one thing that I don't understand: with so many audiophiles, why there are no videophiles? There should be much more applications for magic in video compared to the audio. Vladimir Vassilevsky DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant http://www.abvolt.com >> "What do you suppose this means?: >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant > http://www.abvolt.com Isn't that what HDTV addresses? Chris >>There is one thing that I don't understand: with so many audiophiles, why >>there are no videophiles? There should be much more applications for magic >>in video compared to the audio. May be this is because just about anyone can get reasonable amplifier by putting 5 transistors together. It is not so simple with video. > Isn't that what HDTV addresses? No, it is not. HDTV is the mass market technology, whereas the videophile stuff should be only for the true connoisseurs who can really understand and appreciate. Vladimir Vassilevsky DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant http://www.abvolt.com >> "What do you suppose this means?: >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >why there are no videophiles? Well they are around, they tend to keep rather quite http://www.cinematography.net/ and they do "real testing" http://www.cinematography.net/compare%202007/index.htm martin >> "What do you suppose this means?: >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant > http://www.abvolt.com My take would be that there is much more possibility of objective measurement of display quality on a video signal, you can *see* it, after all. Therefore much less scope for argument and subjective judgement. Maybe I would not want to push this too far, just thinking about color balance and suchlike stuff. SignatureRegards, Adrian Jansen adrianjansen at internode dot on dot net Design Engineer J & K Micro Systems Microcomputer solutions for industrial control Note reply address is invalid, convert address above to machine form. >>> "What do you suppose this means?: >>> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > judgement. Maybe I would not want to push this too far, just thinking > about color balance and suchlike stuff. It also takes a lot more money and technical knowledge to be a videophile. Check the prices of professional colour corrected monitors and projectors (high def). Then we have compression formats etc. SignatureDirk http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff > > "What do you suppose this means?: > > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > why there are no videophiles? There should be much more applications for > magic in video compared to the audio. There are. Ever hear of LaserDisks? The Vidophools *hate* DVDs. SignatureKeith > As if 'super cables' werent enough in the analog domain: > > http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3429.asp Ok. So if they sell these, will somebody design a nuance filter? It says they will "bring out the nuances in digital audio reproduction". Audiophools want _audio_ NOT *nuances*. Or at least so I am told. Maybe they like oldances better, I duuno. Must be a marketing opportunity there. Ed >> As if 'super cables' werent enough in the analog domain: >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Or at least so I am told. Maybe they like oldances better, > I duuno. I certainly don't want 'nuances' when I'm listening to Rammstein. SignatureDirk http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff >>> As if 'super cables' werent enough in the analog domain: >>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >I certainly don't want 'nuances' when I'm listening to Rammstein. It's gotta be the same distortion that the musician listened to in the studio :P Audiophools won't accept distorted distortion. :P The only solution: Pay big $$$$ to fly in the guitarist of Rammstein to listen to the audio system in question and ask, "So...does this sound the same?" D from BC British Columbia Canada >>>> As if 'super cables' werent enough in the analog domain: >>>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > to listen to the audio system in question and ask, "So...does this > sound the same?" What amuses me is people who want to hear the 'pure sound' of a performance. After its been processed to f.ck in the studio then crammed on a CD. SignatureDirk http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff > What amuses me is people who want to hear the 'pure sound' of a > performance. After its been processed to f.ck in the studio then crammed > on a CD. The studio 'cut' is likely very good. Then the damn 'mastering houses' get their hands on it and quash every dB of dynamic range they can out of it - so it sounds 'loud'. Good for the car and stuff. Jeez. See rec.audio.pro Graham >> What amuses me is people who want to hear the 'pure sound' of a >> performance. After its been processed to f.ck in the studio then crammed [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > dynamic range they can out of it - so it sounds 'loud'. Good for the car and > stuff. Jeez. See rec.audio.pro Thing is, if you heard in your room exactly what you heard in the audience of a live performance it would not sound very good. SignatureDirk http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff > >> What amuses me is people who want to hear the 'pure sound' of a > >> performance. After its been processed to f.ck in the studio then crammed [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Thing is, if you heard in your room exactly what you heard in the > audience of a live performance it would not sound very good. That's a different matter though. Graham >>>> What amuses me is people who want to hear the 'pure sound' of a >>>> performance. After its been processed to f.ck in the studio then crammed [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > That's a different matter though. Not at all. What is "real music" that the listener supposedly wants? SignatureDirk http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff > >>>> What amuses me is people who want to hear the 'pure sound' of a > >>>> performance. After its been processed to f.ck in the studio then crammed [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Not at all. > What is "real music" that the listener supposedly wants? Mastering tequnique and the acoustics of a live hall are TOTALLY different matters. Sorry to have to disagree. Graham >>>>>> What amuses me is people who want to hear the 'pure sound' of a >>>>>> performance. After its been processed to f.ck in the studio then crammed [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Mastering tequnique and the acoustics of a live hall are TOTALLY different matters. > Sorry to have to disagree. So what is "real music"? My argument is that such a thing does not exist. SignatureDirk http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff >>>>>>> What amuses me is people who want to hear the 'pure sound' of a >>>>>>> performance. After its been processed to f.ck in the studio then crammed [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >So what is "real music"? >My argument is that such a thing does not exist. Silly twit, music is in the ear of the listener. Personally, i prefer live performance on non-electronic instruments. And i don't get enough. On Jul 25, 10:10�pm, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > What amuses me is people who want to hear the 'pure sound' of a > > performance. After its been processed to f.ck in the studio then crammed [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Graham I wonder how long it will be before some record company execs (or performers?) figure out there might be a market for the individual channel track recordings? My brother recently turned me on to a Beatles re-make album. It was the original musicians, but had been remastered in a completely different way. Some of the tracks were brought into much more prominance, and other reduced. The result was actually pretty damn good. -mpm > On Jul 25, 10:10�pm, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > -mpm I've wondered about that as well, but I suspect the idea was dismissed because the record companies could not make money from the thousands of amateur bootlegs that would result. SignatureDirk http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff >I wonder how long it will be before some record company execs (or >performers?) figure out there might be a market for the individual >channel track recordings? Some group precently released such, and encouraged fans to do their own remixing --- ahh, it was Radiohead ("Nude"), but Trent Reznor has done the same with some Nine Inch Nails tracks, back in 2005. I don't think this was done out of audiophile considerations, but because fans were already messing around with remixing many groups' songs. Might as well give them better starting material. SignatureWim Lewis <wiml@hhhh.org>, Seattle, WA, USA. PGP keyID 27F772C1 > > > What amuses me is people who want to hear the 'pure sound' of a > > > performance. After its been processed to f.ck in the studio then crammed [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > prominance, and other reduced. The result was actually pretty damn > good. The mix is everything. The mastering engineeer's influence however is limited pretty much to level, EQ and dynamics. Graham > > As if 'super cables' werent enough in the analog domain: > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Must be a marketing opportunity there. Digital nuances you mean ? These marketing guys are in la-la land. Graham > As if 'super cables' werent enough in the analog domain: > > http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3429.asp Oh that. It also appears/appeared on the UK site. When I get a second I'm considering reporting it to the Trading Standards Office. A previous check with the Advertsing Standards Agency indicates it was outside their direct remit since it wasn't a direct 'advert' for sale. Oh bum. And I can't find their email to me now. Anyway, it needs to be taken down. Graham |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.