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Electronics Forum / CAD / November 2007trouble with wires in Eagle ?
so i am trying to use Eagle (latest freebie version 4.16r2) to create a small schematic of an old PCB. ( 4 ICs, 5 resistors, 12 buttons, couple diodes/ caps/ ribbon connectors) i added the components to the schematic and started wiring (with problems) Problem : i can draw wires but the wires do not stick predictably to the components and how do you join the wires ??? EG. i draw a wire to connect several components (i.e. component pins) then i try to move some of the components and for one the wire sticks and will follow the component wwhen moved but for another it leaves the wire behind ? when i try to fix by re-dropping or moving the wire to the connection it does not stay again when i try to oin wires to others it does not seem to work ,that is i can drop it onto the wire and it looks connected on screeen but if you move the connected wire the joined wiree stays put and will not follow move thus not connected. what am i doing incorrectly ? robb The Grid settings are wrong. You need to set the grid to the default 50thou Then place the components. Currently the components are off grid and you cannot snap the wire to them. You can salvage what you have by setting the grid to 1 thou. Cheers > so i am trying to use Eagle (latest freebie version 4.16r2) > to create a small schematic of an old PCB. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > what am i doing incorrectly ? > robb > The Grid settings are wrong. > You need to set the grid to the default 50thou [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Cheers thanks martin i'll give that a try robb > > so i am trying to use Eagle (latest freebie version 4.16r2) > > to create a small schematic of an old PCB. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > i can draw wires but the wires do not stick predictably to the > > components and how do you join the wires ??? >so i am trying to use Eagle (latest freebie version 4.16r2) >to create a small schematic of an old PCB. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >what am i doing incorrectly ? >robb Lots of schematic programs can do the near-miss thing, and most can leave dangling wire segments. PADS can do neither. The only type of schematic wire is a connection. John > > i added the components to the schematic and started wiring (with > >problems) [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > John thanks John, looks good but do they have an HE suite ? (hobby edition) one that does not involve loans or leans :) robb >> On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 14:41:41 -0400, "robb" <some@where.on.net> >wrote: [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >robb No, sorry, I think a package starts at about $5K. John robb : >> PADS can do neither. The only type of schematic wire is a connection. >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > robb http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kicad On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 14:41:41 -0400 in sci.electronics.cad, "robb" <some@where.on.net> wrote, >so i am trying to use Eagle (latest freebie version 4.16r2) >Problem : >i can draw wires but the wires do not stick predictably to the >components and how do you join the wires ??? - Use the "Net" command to connect, never "Wire". > On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 14:41:41 -0400 in sci.electronics.cad, "robb" <some@where.on.net> wrote, > >so i am trying to use Eagle (latest freebie version 4.16r2) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > - Use the "Net" command to connect, never "Wire". thanks David, that was the problem. i guess i am just not up to speed on the schematics lingo. i saw wire and assumed it was used to wire things together. now i am curious what a wire is for ? thanks again , rob > so i am trying to use Eagle > i can draw wires but the wires do not stick predictably to the > components and how do you join the wires ??? > what am i doing incorrectly ? This trapped me badly also. Wires are *not* what you think they are. They don't join to pads in Eagle. You need to use "signal", not "wire". In addition, Eagle will, if you muck up the grid, create minuscule connections when you join a signal to a pad, unless you drop exactly on the centre grid point of the pad. The extra segment runs between where you dropped (on the grid) and the active point on the pad - even though you can't see the extra connection. Then when you drag the component, it'll be those extra signals that get stretched, which is very ugly. They should have been annotated internally as "extra", and the drag should drag the intended signal to the nearest grid point, before creating any necessary extra segments. Bottom line is that you really should use a grid that will match the exact pad locations of your component footprints. G*d help you if you want to mix metric (say 1mm spacing) with imperial, say 1.27mm. If you want that, you should first redraw the component footprint of whichever chip is the odd one, using the grid you're going to use for the rest of the board... or just make sure that you never need to move it around once it's placed. Hope this helps! Clifford Heath. > > so i am trying to use Eagle > > i can draw wires but the wires do not stick predictably to the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > This trapped me badly also. Wires are *not* what you think they are. > They don't join to pads in Eagle. You need to use "signal", not "wire". yes that was the problem exactly, i suppose i should have read the instructions/manual i guess i will read manual to find out what a wire is :) > In addition, Eagle will, if you muck up the grid, create minuscule > connections when you join a signal to a pad, unless you drop exactly [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the drag should drag the intended signal to the nearest grid point, > before creating any necessary extra segments. I think have seen that ? little tails of signals > Bottom line is that you really should use a grid that will match > the exact pad locations of your component footprints. G*d help you [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Hope this helps! > Clifford Heath. yes, very helpful. thanks for the help robb robb wrote: >>the wires do not stick predictably to the components >This trapped me badly also. Yup. "Poorly named". >Wires are *not* what you think they are. >They don't join to pads in Eagle. You need to use "signal", not "wire". http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.basics/browse_frm/thread/e454f7a3 faa8d1aa/c693e488397b0ec2?q=*-*-*-*-*-*-*-not-*-*-*-conductive+Kevin.Bolding+Use -Net-*-*-*+a-cheat+the.command.is.poorly.named+Use.Bus+avoid+zz+*-*-should-have- been-called-Line Eagle sounds a bit poor, but what can you expect for nothing ? Most CAD programs will capture the nearest pin to the net if it is within say 100 thou. www.ckp-railways.talktalk.net/pcbcad28.htm www.ckp-railways.talktalk.net/pcbcad21.htm > Eagle sounds a bit poor, but what can you expect for nothing? > Most CAD programs will capture the nearest pin to the net if it is > within say 100 thou. No, Eagle is excellent, and will capture to the pin just fine, as long as you don't use the ill-named wire feature, which isn't meant to. The "capture to the the pin" is done by adding extra segments, which aren't torn out and redone when you move the chip, and that's another weakness. I wouldn't call it a bug, but it's certainly an inconvenience. Lousy Spammer! Marra skrev: > Eagle sounds a bit poor, but what can you expect for nothing ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kicad > i can draw wires but the wires do not stick predictably to the > components and how do you join the wires ??? Stay on the grid. I forget the exact units, but Eagle's schematic capture uses something like a 1/1000th mil internal unit. Wires only connect if they exactly touch. It's very hard to do that if you've got any components off a grid. Back when I used Eagle I had figured out some CLI command to rescue off-grid items (once I orphaned the entire power supply of a project by moving it all with the grid disabled before I knew how to recover it).  SignatureBen Jackson AD7GD <ben@ben.com> http://www.ben.com/ Eagle sounds like a real mess. www.ckp-railways.talktalk.net/pcbcad28.htm > Eagle sounds like a real mess. It's far better developed and supported than your piece of software, Marra. > www.ckp-railways.talktalk.net/pcbcad28.htm The claim that you're using ".Net 3.0 windows graphics interface" only applies to your first image ("Click on a button to select a module..."), doesn't it? The actual applications still run in DOS boxes, don't they? You are completely wrong. The software is a windows application using .net framework v3.0 and Windows programming foundation. The software is fully supported by email and phone. If you find a bug I fix it and send you an update. I cant think of any other company that does this ! And all for less than ?20 ! "If you find a bug I fix it and send you an update. I cant think of any other company that does this !" That's certanily commendable; companies' responsiveness to fixing bugs certainly varies a lot these days... Eagle seems to be pretty good, as Pulsonix ...mostly... is (and it's written using .Net as well) -- Cadence and Mentor are pretty much the pits, of course. This software was converted to windows in around 1997 ! Your comments are only 10 years out of date lol > This software was converted to windows in around 1997 ! So why don't your screenshots *look* like regular Windows... windows? You have a non-standard menu bar, no scroll bars, no resize "handle" widget in the lower-right corner, etc. I don't know of any other payware schematic capture/PCB layout tool today for Windows that looks that way... perhaps you've come up with what you think is an even better GUI than what Windows provides? (You wouldn't be the first -- back around 1992 or 93 I used EDA software -- ProNet/ProBoard -- on Commodore Amiga computers that completely ignored the standard Amiga windows menus and controls, substituting their own...) Why don't you place your users manuals on your web site? If your software really is any good, I'm sure it'll increase your sales. ---Joel >> This software was converted to windows in around 1997 ! > ... ..skip list of perceived faults, which I won't bother to dispute... > Why don't you place your users manuals on your web site? If your software > really is any good, I'm sure it'll increase your sales. > Did you actually look at the website (http://www.cadsoftusa.com)? The download area has a 248-page pdf "manual-eng.pdf" and a 71-page "tutorial-eng.pdf" right there with the software in rpm and tgz formats. There are also German versions. Over in the User Download area, there's a 418-page "eagle416r2_help_en.pdf", besides a number of other freely downloadable documents in various languages. As it happens, I use and like Eagle. My previous experience has been with pcad, autocad, and a couple of hobbyist-type programs. I like the freeware Eagle best of them all. I hope someday to be able to be able to pay for a pro-level version. John Perry > Why don't you place your users manuals on your web site? If your software > really is any good, I'm sure it'll increase your sales. > > ---Joel The software does what it says in the advertisement. If it didnt I wouldnt have had 500 plus satisfied customers. The software has been developed over 17 years. The first version was 330,000 lines of assembler. It was later converted to Delphi Pascal and then a couple of years ago to C#. Loads has been added as I have found a need for new functions. > The software does what it says in the advertisement. That doesn't mean it necessarily does it as well as its competitors. :-) You'll find me on here all the time whining about what crap ORCAD Capture is, but I would admit that, indeed, it "does what it says in the advertisement." > If it didnt I wouldnt have had 500 plus satisfied customers. I'm sure that your product is worth the very low price you're charging. But surely you'd still like to increase sales? If only takes 10 minutes to put up PDFs of your user manuals on your webs site. If it's really as good as you suggest it's probably a bargrain at ten times the current price! ---Joel On 26 Oct, 22:19, "Joel Koltner" <JKolstad71HatesS...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > The software does what it says in the advertisement. > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > ---Joel But I am a non profit making outfit. The software makes enough money to pay for PC consumables. The software is sold at way under its marketable value. I dont really want to sell masses of software as it is now just a hobby. I was a pro electronics and software engineer for 25 years and this is just to keep my hand in. My post would only be spam if I was making a living from the software and I am not. If people want to take advantage of the very low price then great, if not I wont lose any sleep over it. > My post would only be spam if I was making a living from the software > and I am not. It doesn't work that way. As far as I'm concerned at least commercial spam is simply a rather large subset of the total. Robert SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Hi Marra, > But I am a non profit making outfit. > The software makes enough money to pay for PC consumables. > The software is sold at way under its marketable value. OK, understood. You might look into a couple different classes of licenses -- dirt cheap for personal use, more expensive for commercial use. Even if you're not interested in the extra monies from the commercial use licenses, you could donate it to a charity of your choosing and benefit someone without the commercial user batting an eye at the higher price. > My post would only be spam if I was making a living from the software > and I am not. The idea was that you'd stick the PDF user's manual on that same web site where you're advertising the software. If you were to post it on alt.binaries.sci.electronics (just ONCE! :-) ), that would be perfectly appropriate too. Heck, just e-mail me a copy... I'm j k o l s t a d 7 1 @ y a h o o . c o m ; I'll be happy to stick it on a web site myself if you'd like. ---Joel On 29 Oct, 19:00, "Joel Koltner" <JKolstad71HatesS...@yahoo.com> wrote: > Hi Marra, > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > ---Joel Have posted manual on website. www.ckp-railways.talktalk.net/pcbcad28.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kicad On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:27:43 -0700 in sci.electronics.cad, Marra <cresswellavenue@talktalk.net> wrote, >Eagle sounds like a real mess. No, you are just a spammer trying to trash your competition. > On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:27:43 -0700 in sci.electronics.cad, Marra > <cresswellave...@talktalk.net> wrote, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I dont need to trash the competition. The competition does it just fine on its own. Had loads of people come across to me from numerous CAD packages. They know that with me they will be fully supported. I am happy to spend time with customers to help them, many other companies dont want to know once they have your cash ! > On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:27:43 -0700 in sci.electronics.cad, Marra > <cresswellave...@talktalk.net> wrote, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > - Show quoted text - If you get something for nothing then its bound to have problems. On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 18:46:54 -0500 in sci.electronics.cad, Ben Jackson <ben@ben.com> wrote, >Back when I used Eagle I had figured >out some CLI command to rescue off-grid items (once I orphaned the >entire power supply of a project by moving it all with the grid disabled >before I knew how to recover it). Type a command like "move IC1" (or whatever your part name is) then move it with the mouse. When you drop it, it'll be back on the grid. Hello, David! You wrote on Fri, 26 Oct 2007 11:52:57 -0700: <snip> (once I orphaned the ??>> entire power supply of a project by moving it all with the grid ??>> disabled before I knew how to recover it). DH> Type a command like "move IC1" (or whatever your part name is) then DH> move it with the mouse. When you drop it, it'll be back on the grid. Select the grid you need. Click the "Move" icon, press and hold "CTL" then left click the off-grid item. It will jump on to your grid. I use this a lot in package editor to move pads that were initially placed on a metric grid that I later decided to place on a "close enough" division (1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16) of the default 0.1". With best regards, brett900h. E-mail: bretth2o@bellsoh.net |
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