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Electronics Forum / CAD / June 2005Expedition PCB with ViewDraw by MENTOR Graph. (former VERIBEST)
Dear sci.electronics.cad groupies, has anyone experience with EXPEDITION PCB and ViewDraw from Mentor? Can you recommend it? How much do either cost in the USA or elsewhere? Regards Gerhart : Dear sci.electronics.cad groupies, : has anyone experience with EXPEDITION PCB and ViewDraw from Mentor? Can : you recommend it? I have had a lot of experience with ViewDraw, which is called "DxDesigner" these days. I have used it for several years at various corporations around Boston, MA, where it seems to be the standard schematic capture program [1]. It is an easy to use package; it behaves very intuitively. It used to be kind of buggy [2], but my current version (8.1.0) hasn't caused too many problems. OTOH, I did more difficult designs in the past (more hierarchy with re-used blocks), and the OATS technology was a major source of bugs. Sometimes my design and the output netlists wouldn't agree. In that case, I had to delete all the .wir files in order to get rid of old, hidden stuff which was confusing the program. Nowadays I am not doing such complicated stuff, so perhaps that's why ViewDraw is better behaved. I can't speak for Expedition; I have only seen the Mentor sales demo. It looked pretty cool & very capable. : How much do either cost in the USA or elsewhere? ViewDraw and Expedition are high-end products useful for complicated designs. Bundled together they cost around $10K -- $20K I believe, perhaps more. If you are doing high-end stuff (big boards, many thousands of nets, eight or more layers, routing constraints, diff pairs, hierarchy, etc.), then they are appropriate tools, and I'd recommend them. I'd also recommend having an in-house tools guru who can help you out when the tools misbehave. If you're not doing high-end stuff, then they are too much money. Stuart (who continues to advocate the free, open-source gEDA Suite for low- and mid-level circuit design: http://www.geda.seul.org/ ) [1] I hear that Cadence's "Capture" is more common on the West Coast. True? [2] But not nearly as buggy as Protel, which sets the standard for misbehaving EDA software. Dear Stuart, thank you for your comment Stuart Brorson schrieb: ... > I have had a lot of experience with ViewDraw, which is called > "DxDesigner" these days. ... It is an easy to use package; it > behaves very intuitively. Did you also have a chance to get aquainted with the DesignView, the other schematics program of Mentor? Any comments on that? I worked with ORCAD capture since a couple of years. > I can't speak for Expedition; I have only seen the Mentor sales demo. > It looked pretty cool & very capable. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > pairs, hierarchy, etc.), then they are appropriate tools, and I'd > recommend them. I have to work with constraints like tuned net length and shielded lines/pairs by reducing the layer count to the minimum. Maybe it is possible for anyone who reads this to find out the US-price of DxDesigner, DesignView and Expedition Ascent? Regards Gerhart : Dear Stuart, : thank you for your comment [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] :> "DxDesigner" these days. ... It is an easy to use package; it :> behaves very intuitively. : Did you also have a chance to get aquainted with the DesignView, the : other schematics program of Mentor? Any comments on that? I have not used it. The other Mentor schematic capture program I have used in teh distant past was "Design Architect", which was rather archaic even way back when I was using it. It ran on unix & you had to learn strokes with the mouse to manipulate your design elements. I found it very strange. Also, our installation was very broken. I wouldn't recommend it. : I worked with ORCAD capture since a couple of years. My sympathies. : I have to work with constraints like tuned net length and shielded : lines/pairs by reducing the layer count to the minimum. You need something high end and ViewDraw/Expedition is a good choice. The other choice would be Cadence's Capture/Allegro combination. Alternately, you can still run a ViewDraw -> Allegro flow. This is quite common in America's Northeast. HOwever, I don't know how much longer Mentor will support this flow. They claim they will continue to support it, but I have my doubts. . . . . : Maybe it is possible for anyone who reads this to find out the US-price : of DxDesigner, DesignView and Expedition Ascent? For expensive software like this, there is rarely a fixed price. Rather, you negotiate a price with your Mentor sales guy. The price depends upon the size of your organization, how many seats you want, whether it's a nodelocked or floating licence, how hard you negotiate, how much Mentor wants your business, and plenty of other issues too. Contact your Mentor rep. Stuart > my design and the output netlists wouldn't agree. In that case, I had > to delete all the .wir files in order to get rid of old, hidden stuff > which was confusing the program. Nowadays I am not doing such I delete .wir files on a daily basis whether they need it or not... this needed to be fixed years ago. : > my design and the output netlists wouldn't agree. In that case, I : had : > to delete all the .wir files in order to get rid of old, hidden : stuff : > which was confusing the program. Nowadays I am not doing such : I delete .wir files on a daily basis whether they need it or not... : this needed to be fixed years ago. Exactly. So why hasn't ViewDraw -> Innoveda -> Mentor Graphics done the right thing? It's not that hard, and they've had about a decade to do it . . . . Another reason why open-source will eat their lunch eventually. Stuart My company uses Expedition, and it is a powerful program that works well. However, it is expensive. Jim If your doing high end stuff then Expedition is worth the outlay. Otherwise I'd recommend Pulsonix (http://www.pulsonix.com/ )above other packages such as Pads/Orcad/Protel/CADstar etc. Richard |
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