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Gain bandwidth product

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asdfasfasfertert@yahoo.co.uk - 28 Apr 2007 16:11 GMT
I have been reading in wikipedia about Gain-bandwidth product
and I wanted to ask if anyone knows why the openloop
gain decreases linearly as the frequency increases?
John Larkin - 28 Apr 2007 17:02 GMT
>I have been reading in wikipedia about Gain-bandwidth product
>and I wanted to ask if anyone knows why the openloop
>gain

Open loop gain of what?

> decreases linearly as the frequency increases?

It doesn't, necessarily.

John
BobG - 28 Apr 2007 17:18 GMT
Keep reading. To keep the hi gain amplifier from becoming an
oscillator, the gain plot (Bode plot) should cross the 0db axis at 6dB
per octave... a one pole low pass roll off rate... a capacitor across
the feedback resistor of the gain stage...
John Larkin - 28 Apr 2007 18:56 GMT
>Keep reading. To keep the hi gain amplifier from becoming an
>oscillator, the gain plot (Bode plot) should cross the 0db axis at 6dB
>per octave... a one pole low pass roll off rate... a capacitor across
>the feedback resistor of the gain stage...

I still have no idea what you, or the op, are hinting at. He mentions
open-loop unspecified somethings, which don't oscillate and don't
necessarily behave as he thinks wikipedia predicts. You seem to be
talking about closed-loop amps, which can be stabilized in all sorts
of ways, 6 dB/octave open-loop transfer function being one of the
least interesting.

This is all too fuzzy.

John
Anthony Fremont - 28 Apr 2007 19:05 GMT
>> Keep reading. To keep the hi gain amplifier from becoming an
>> oscillator, the gain plot (Bode plot) should cross the 0db axis at
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> This is all too fuzzy.

Op-amps?
John Larkin - 29 Apr 2007 01:49 GMT
>>> Keep reading. To keep the hi gain amplifier from becoming an
>>> oscillator, the gain plot (Bode plot) should cross the 0db axis at
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
>Op-amps?

Who knows?

John
John Popelish - 28 Apr 2007 17:30 GMT
> I have been reading in wikipedia about Gain-bandwidth product
> and I wanted to ask if anyone knows why the openloop
> gain decreases linearly as the frequency increases?

It is not necessarily so.  This effect (gain decreasing
linearly as frequency rises) is caused by a single pole (one
energy storage element with the energy supplied through a
linear source, like a resistor) of a low pass filter.  Many
circuits have more than one energy storage element in them,
and some may be in a high pass configuration, or in a
resonant configuration.  Those circuits do not have the gain
decreasing linearly and in proportion to rising frequency.

But if an amplifier (such as an opamp) is being designed to
have stable negative feedback programmed gain over a wide
range of gain choices, it is very helpful to this end if the
gain roll off with rising frequency, is dominated by a
single pole, since this keeps the input to output phase
shift near 90 degrees till the gain falls below 1.

Excessive phase shift around a closed loop can convert
negative feedback to positive feedback.  If this happens
while there is still effective gain around the loop, the
closed loop configuration is unstable and will sustain
oscillations (a self reinforcing echo that creates copies of
itself, that travel around the loop, instead of damping out).
Eeyore - 28 Apr 2007 22:14 GMT
> I have been reading in wikipedia about Gain-bandwidth product
> and I wanted to ask if anyone knows why the openloop
> gain decreases linearly as the frequency increases?

Because that's where the gain bandwidth figure product come from !

Eg if an op-amp has a gain bandwidth product of 1 MHz, the gain is 1 at 1 MHz,
10 at 100 kHz ,100 at 10kHz and so on.

There will be a maximum gain at low frequencies where it stops increasing
though.

Look up dominant pole compensation for more details.

Graham
 
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