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Electronics Forum / Basics / March 2007My Introductory Post
Hello all.. I'm a newbie.. well sort of.. Now, don't flame me! LoL. I don't know a lot about electronics. A lot of stuff I have forgotten over the years about it. It seems I need to fill in the gaps in my information, as well as learn new things. Well, I'm almost 30 and it's been more than 10 years since I was in school. I live in the NW where a lot of very technical people live because we have a major internet and software company here, and a lot more. I'm in to Shortwave (SW) listening and DX. I'm also in to Mediumwave (MW commonly called AM) DX. I am also going to be getting into Amateur (Ham) Radio. Posts to a Amateur Radio forum online were unsuccessful, so I came here to Sci.Elec.Basics. They flamed me for being inexperienced, and not to come to them till I had a radio liscence, well at least thats how they came across to me. I know what certain electronics components look like, resistors, capacitors, chips, diodes, and the basic stuff, but knowing what they do and how they function in a circuit kind of elude me, or I have forgotten what I was taught by my dad, science teachers and I'm sort of autistic (a neuropsych is underway at present), and have a hard time with short term memory recall, which makes studies hard on me. Hopefully I will learn more about what exactly I have as far as condition goes will help me narrow down what techniques are best for learning such advanced stuff. I have the 1985 (Yes, I know it's old! 22 in fact) ARRL Handbook which has a lot of information, but it's over my head. I fear I'd need someone to lead me through what I should learn and what to skip. I figured not a lot of the theory behind this has changed a lot. Naturally I like putting things together. Well, About 8 months ago I purchased a Fluke 8050A Digital Multimeter (DMM) at a thrift store for about $10. Neat little one. I downloaded the manual from Fluke, and well, still not have found that I understand how to use it. My grandfather had a VTVM, an old Simpson from the 40's. Interesting too. I got to use it to check AA and the like batteries. Beyond that knowledge here is limited. I figured I would eventually build something out of the handbook, useful in my hobby, and also maybe some sort of test equipment for the bench. I don't want to do anything too complicated for a beginner yet something that would allow me to learn more along the way. I like the idea of homebrew.. not really kit building.. but rolling your own kind of thing. Always has fascinated me. Years ago, and I still do, because I managed to find a newer one used, I had a kind of Science Fair kit which allowed you to build electronics projects by inserting wires into springs on the top of the panel. I learned some things then.. somewhere around 1986.. but didn't manage to get a lot of the circuits I built in the book that came with it to work. Well anyhow there ya have it, yet I'm lost as where to go on to next. I'm just tired of being flamed by a newbie. Oh yeah, I've found recent interest in Software Defined Radio, a open-source project. Very neat.. Would love to try one some day.. maybe even build one. Theres a link to something called HPSDR floating around. Google and look at it sometime, it's interesting. It's High Performance SDR. Greg > Hello all.. > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > being inexperienced, and not to come to them till I had a radio > liscence, well at least thats how they came across to me. I read the thread in rec.radio.amateur.homebrew and I don't think they really "flamed" you. They sorta flamed each other, but that's the nature of USENET. You can't have thin skin around here. ;-) They were just cautioning you to not set your initial goals too high, or you might be disappointed. Start with simple things and move up as your skills increase. > I know what certain electronics components look like, resistors, > capacitors, chips, diodes, and the basic stuff, but knowing what they [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > need someone to lead me through what I should learn and what to skip. > I figured not a lot of the theory behind this has changed a lot. I have a 1976 Handbook and it's still quite valid. It has allot of information about tubes that I don't really need, and nothing about computers, but the radio/antenna theory is still good. My "new" one is from 1989. > Naturally I like putting things together. Well, About 8 months ago > I purchased a Fluke 8050A Digital Multimeter (DMM) at a thrift store [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > too. I got to use it to check AA and the like batteries. Beyond that > knowledge here is limited. Perhaps you should get some parts and a bread board. Maybe a 555 timer, an LED and some resistors and caps to make it work. You can learn allot from something this simple. By setting the time period long (seconds or even minutes), you can watch the cap charge and discharge with your meter. You could use this to see Ohms law in action by plotting the voltage on the cap over time. You could then pick up a couple of logic ic's (say a binary counter and a BCD to 7 segment decoder) and an LED display and construct a counter circuit. You could then add more parts to expand upon that. I know this probably doesn't sound as exciting as building a radio, but this is how you get there. I think you will find it quite enjoyable making something like that work. > I figured I would eventually build something out of the handbook, > useful in my hobby, and also maybe some sort of test equipment for the > bench. I don't want to do anything too complicated for a beginner yet > something that would allow me to learn more along the way. That's a good idea. Small projects that work are way more satisfying than complicated ones that don't. Plus it's easier getting the smaller ones to work, when they don't initially. Now that is satisfying. :-) > I like the idea of homebrew.. not really kit building.. but rolling > your own kind of thing. Always has fascinated me. Yes, I can certainly appreciate that. > Years ago, and I still do, because I managed to find a newer one > used, I had a kind of Science Fair kit which allowed you to build > electronics projects by inserting wires into springs on the top of the > panel. I learned some things then.. somewhere around 1986.. but > didn't manage to get a lot of the circuits I built in the book that > came with it to work. These are not a bad way to get started. Most of the circuits should have worked, perhaps you had one bad transistor or something. > Well anyhow there ya have it, yet I'm lost as where to go on to > next. I'm just tired of being flamed by a newbie. Like I said, you need some thick skin to hang around USENET. :-) Perhaps try to find another "science fair" type setup. > Oh yeah, I've found recent interest in Software Defined Radio, a > open-source project. Very neat.. Would love to try one some day.. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Greg > Hello all.. > [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > > Greg Your first goal should be to learn to use your Fluke to make voltage, resistance and current measurements, then add the things that Anthony told you about - it is excellent advice. Ed > I'm in to Shortwave (SW) listening and DX. I'm also in to > Mediumwave (MW commonly called AM) DX. I am also going to be getting into > Amateur (Ham) Radio. Posts to a Amateur Radio forum online were > unsuccessful, so I came here to Sci.Elec.Basics. They flamed me for being > inexperienced, and not to come to them till I had a radio liscence, well > at least thats how they came across to me. Please ignore, filter, or killfile the jackasses. The rule here in s.e.basics is, there is no such thing as a dumb question. Every one of us started from square zero at one time or another, and the flamers and trolls are usually few and far between - eventually you'll learn which ones to ignore. Welcome to the loony bin! :-) Cheers! Rich Hello again. Well! I want to say thanks to you all for 3 of the nicest responses (s0 far) I have gotten on ANY of the 10 different forums I belong to, on and off USNET. I have similar postings over on QRZ.com in their forums. Look for postings there by KB7NDF and also gbowne1. (I really got flamed on QRZ!) Plus the fact that I didn't at first realize you don't have to have a call to sign up for QRZ.. Now they think I'm a fake, even after I apologized several times. I'm not the sort of person who would do the sort of things they suggested that I was like. I forgot to mention, since many of you might not have read my thread on rec.radio.amateur.homebrew, that I have had a book around here since 1997-1998 that was called "Build Your Own Intelligent Amateur Radio Transceiver" by Randy Lee Henderson. Interesting project, that I will some day tackle. McGraw Hill ISBN 0-07-028264-1 in paperback. It's based on an 80C31 and/or 8051 with a 27C64 EPROM. I did a bit of research on the web about the book and the author, and there were numerous threads, comments,etc. that said that the book had tons of errors in it, especially wrong part numbers. A person suggested I replace the chip with a 16F series chip. I also forgot to mention I now own a Yaesu Amateur Radio Transceiver FT-757GX. Somewhere else I also have a Heathkit 0-12 (??) scope and a huge old military surplus scope from an unknown era. I have forgotten about them since they've been in my storage area in the house for a while. I was also warned to stay away from sweep tube projects. IE 6DQ6. A friend cave me a 6m converted CB (26MHz) AMP with three sweep tubes eons ago. Anyone have any good tips on using the Fluke 8050A? I bought some new probes at RS. Oh yeah, and I was able to locate a Science Fair project kit from RS at a thrift store for $5. My original one may have been defective. I didn't get the project book with it.. but it may be still available somewhere. A subject I found interesting was "Filter Design" and came up with something like Buttterworth High and Low Bandpass Filter, Chebychev, things like that. Oh yeah and I also own several different Texas Instruments graphing calcualtors too.. might prove useful sometimes. :-) I have a Radio Shack DX-360 and DX-390 that I haven't figured out why they don't work. The 390 did till just recently. RF (maybe PLN) really bothered it. I printed copies of the parts list off their site. Although one could build a similar receiver perhaps from just looking at the original board along with a copy of the parts list. I got the 360 cause I wanted a smaller portable.. even though I have a Sangean ATS-808a which I use for my MW/AM DX. Well, anyhow, I'm not sure how many questions I'll have here but maybe and I hope I'll get answers.. oh yeah, and I don't want to get into being a RF engineer, well at least right away.. and I know there are a lot of building blocks there. Greg Seattle, WA > I forgot to mention, since many of you might not have read my thread > on rec.radio.amateur.homebrew, that I have had a book around here [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > errors in it, especially wrong part numbers. A person suggested I > replace the chip with a 16F series chip. If you research this suggestion, you'll find the 16F series is a microcontroller series named PIC. These chips are of a more modern design than the 80C31 / 8051 series. Certainly, the PIC chips could be used to make any device more intelligent as could the 80 series but your example programs would require a total rewrite to suit the architectural demands of the new chip. I think it would be silly to introduce another learning curve into the project especially in light of the errors you mentioned in his original design. > > I forgot to mention, since many of you might not have read my thread > > on rec.radio.amateur.homebrew, that I have had a book around here [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > project > especially in light of the errors you mentioned in his original design. Well, the original code was built in assembly language. I happen to have a copy of Microsoft Visual Studio Express Edition. Circa 2005. About as far as I got into programming was BASIC. I lost track of that when QBasic came out near the intro to Windows 95. The program is numbered 1 through 2008 and aparently would fit onto the 27C64. I'd have to do a bit of catching up so to speak. Someday, not right now, I'd like to learn how to use a NEC such as is like EZ-NEC or MultiNEC and MathCAD. Oh yeah, I correct myself, the laboratory oscilloscope I have is the Heathkit 0-10. The other one I have was made for the U.S. Navy. I got it from my high school horticulture teacher for $25 back in 1995. It was made by Lavoie Labrotories in Morganville, NJ. It's model LA-239A. A lot of interesting controls and connectors on it. some look like N connectors, maybe a type of BNC, others look like SO-239's, and others. I'd have to have a custom made AC power cord and probes. I also was unable to locate a manual. Seral # 154 with a USN Anchor symbol. I've been to a few hamfests in the past 3 years, and well I've seen a lot of HP Equipment.. among others. Greg > I've been to a few hamfests in the past 3 years, and well I've seen a > lot of HP Equipment.. among others. > Greg Welcome to the newsgroup. You should feel free to ask any questions you like, without being harshly criticized. The SED NG is more for advanced discussions, although it often degenerates to political and personal issues. A pretty good on-line source of information, and quite readable, is: http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/electricCircuits/ If you want to get involved with PICs, I suggest Microchip's PICKit-1 as a starting point. At about $30 it's hard to go wrong. I would also suggest that you download the free and quite excellent LTspice or SwitcherCad program from www.linear.com. You can create some simple circuits and apply various AC, DC, and pulse sources to see how they work. The ASCII files are small and easy to share with others on the newsgroup for evaluation and help. Of course, what I find most fun is actually building and testing a circuit with real power sources and components. Just be sure you follow safe practices, such as wearing safety glasses (to protect against hot solder splashes and pieces of exploding capacitors), and caution when dangerous voltages may be present. A good working oscilloscope is essential. I have a Hitachi digital storage scope that has served me well for 15 years. I also like HP. I have an HP 130A scope that I repaired and used when I was in college in the late 60's. Hamfests are great places to find parts for projects, and to discuss your ideas with others. I am looking forward to the one here in Timonium March 31. Good luck with your projects. Paul www.pstech-inc.com > Well, the original code was built in assembly language. I happen to > have a copy of Microsoft Visual Studio Express Edition. Circa 2005. > About as far as I got into programming was BASIC. I lost track of that > when QBasic came out near the intro to Windows 95. The program is > numbered 1 through 2008 and aparently would fit onto the 27C64. I'd > have to do a bit of catching up so to speak. If you're only used to BASIC, assembly language will be a real kick in the behind! The PIC is not a Von Neumann architecture so data and program memory is not the same. Sorry to cut it short but I need to get to airport now... "Lord Garth" <LGarth@Tantalus.net> wrote in news:%vxMh.366$rO7.321 @newssvr25.news.prodigy.net: *snip* > Sorry to cut it short but I need to get to airport now... You mean "transporter room" don't you, Lord Garth? It would work out much better if you were to pose as a visiting doctor or something, rather than Kirk or Spock. That way, you can get away without knowing the response to the chess move. I probably should have kept my big fingers quiet. If Lord Garth finds me, he's going to put me in that chair! Puckdropper  SignatureWise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it. To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm I heard of something called PSpice.. I think it's a MicroSim product. It was ages ago I heard about it. Though I'd be happy to look at those programs. Yeah, I'd have to throw in a whole new learning curve here if I went that route. Anything I should have in my "junk box" regularly? Someone a while back suggested I build a superhetrodyne receiver. Interesting idea. But you know, I'm in need of a power supply. :-) Particularly one for my amateur radio transceiver, which normally runs off of 13.8v DC. On recieve it only consumes 2A, on transmit for 100W output, it consumes 19A. It says the connector accepts 12 to 15vDC at 19A. Another page of the manual says it requires 13.5vDC up to 20A. It's protected by a 20A fuse. The output is through #12 wire. I'm gonna need a stable one that doesn't produce an output of a 60Hz (cycle) hum through the transmit. I had an old 12v CB Power brick supply which used to produce a AC hum when I transmitted. I'm still interested in filters too. :) Greg > But you know, I'm in need of a power supply. :-) Particularly one for > my amateur radio transceiver, which normally runs off of 13.8v DC. On [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > transmit. I had an old 12v CB Power brick supply which used to > produce a AC hum when I transmitted. ISTR some articles in http://www.siliconchip.com about reconfiguring computer power supplies. > I heard of something called PSpice.. I think it's a MicroSim product. > It was ages ago I heard about it. Though I'd be happy to look at > those programs. there's a bunch of free versions out there if you want to play, a popular one is LT-Spice/SwitcherCadIII (download from linear technology's website) > Yeah, I'd have to throw in a whole new learning curve here if I went > that route. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > transmit. I had an old 12v CB Power brick supply which used to > produce a AC hum when I transmitted. Possibly a computer powersupply could be modified to lift the 12V rail by a few volts it'd have to be a fairly recent one though. Bye. Jasen Cool, I'll look into that. Still reading my for now. Am downloading LTSpice and the CAD program and gonna look at them. thank you all graciously for your help so far. Greg Well, Let's see.. I tried the link www.siliconchip.com and it wasn't loading.. so, I did a search for the article. Turns out it's www.siliconchip.com.au/ although there seems to be a wiki page on this. I downloaded those programs from Linear and am gonna look at them this week. Anyone have any idea what probes I should get for my oscilloscope? Greg Hi gbowne1. I think you should go to your local bookstore and invest in "Art of Electronics". Well worth the price. Many hours of interesting browsing and reading. > Hello all.. > > I'm a newbie.. well sort of.. Now, don't flame me! LoL. Feel free to ignore or filter anyone who flames you. > I don't know a lot about electronics. Welcome. This is the place for electronics beginners to get help. (snip) > I'm in to Shortwave (SW) listening and DX. I'm also in to > Mediumwave (MW commonly called AM) DX. I am also going to be getting [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > condition goes will help me narrow down what techniques are best for > learning such advanced stuff. Thanks for this bit of information. It may help us provide information in a way that is more useful to you. Teaching involves more than knowing the material to be taught. It involves imagining the mental state being changed in the student. We may get to know more about your present mental state and learning strengths and weaknesses through further conversations. > I have the 1985 (Yes, I know it's old! 22 in fact) ARRL Handbook > which has a lot of information, but it's over my head. Still a good reference. Another good one to browse through is "The Art of Electronics" by Paul Horowitz and Winfield Hill, and the more basic "Electronic Principles" by Malvino. Here is a good site to look for low cost used books: http://www.bookfinder.com/ > I fear I'd > need someone to lead me through what I should learn and what to skip. > I figured not a lot of the theory behind this has changed a lot. We won't produce a program of study for you, but are here to answer specific questions when you get stuck on technical details. > Naturally I like putting things together. Well, About 8 months ago > I purchased a Fluke 8050A Digital Multimeter (DMM) at a thrift store [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > didn't manage to get a lot of the circuits I built in the book that > came with it to work. Those kits are a good way to generate questions. It is a shame you didn't have anyone to answer them as they came to mind. > Well anyhow there ya have it, yet I'm lost as where to go on to > next. I'm just tired of being flamed by a newbie. The key word you need to add to any Google search is [tutorial]. It will find articles designed to explain how things work. There are lots of good electronics beginner tutorials on the net. You can pick other key words from [basic electronics transistor amplifier DC AC circuits]. > Oh yeah, I've found recent interest in Software Defined Radio, a > open-source project. Very neat.. Would love to try one some day.. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Greg >Hello all.. > [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] >Theres a link to something called HPSDR floating around. Google and >look at it sometime, it's interesting. It's High Performance SDR. --- Congratulations, and welcome aboard. :-) In the huge morass of USENET, you may have found the right group for you. Mostly, on this newsgroup, none of us considers any questions as being stupid and we (me, anyway) don't generally flame anyone except for attitude. If you have questions about Ohm's law, this is probably the right place for you. But, it seems, you're pushing HPDSR... Just another SPAMmer? SignatureJF I have on download via eMule, a copy of "The Art of Electronics", and a few others that I noted. Are there any others I should look for? Quote: "Just another SPAMmer?" Not in the least bit. Not sure I have a question about ohms law but while were on that subject are there any key formulae I should keep in my head or notebook? I heard about those books by Forest Mims (sp?) too.. and the green book put out by Radio Shack. I had one at one time and probably still do however it's been misplaced. I won't be doing much with HPSDR till I get to that place in electronics. Reading about it's been pretty nice though. Greg > I have on download via eMule, a copy of "The Art of Electronics" =============================================== Winfield Hill often appears in these newsgroups. How does he get his royalty when you get a book from emule? Maybe he has a paypal site and you can send him his fee for writing the book and helping bootstrap you up into the ranks of electronics experimenters and thieves, evidently. How many mega does a 1000 page book take? I like flipping thru my paper copy while sitting on the couch. Never read a 1000 page book on a crt. >> I have on download via eMule, a copy of "The Art of Electronics" > =============================================== [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > thru my paper copy while sitting on the couch. Never read a 1000 page > book on a crt. Both is best. You can search the e-Book and read the paper book. > I have on download via eMule, a copy of "The Art of Electronics", and > a few others that I noted. Are there any others I should look for? [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > I won't be doing much with HPSDR till I get to that place in > electronics. Reading about it's been pretty nice though. Have you tried the other side of google? Just now, a search on "Ohm's Law", with the quotes and apostrophe, yielded "about 580,000" hits. Good Luck! Rich I've been to the dark side of Google and back. I use it at the NG reader/replier here. I use WebFerret for my searches. It helps weed out the duplicate links amongst several search engines and the same key words. Yeah, well, I may eventually get the actual book but I like to get one as easy as possible. Oh yeah, and there are both free and paid eBook downloads places. I use one that's paid all the time, if I like the book I've read that I got from eMule.. and may even sometimes purchase the real book. I don't have a lot of shelf space or room for shelving in my rooms so I have to make do with what I got. Greg |
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