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How Do You Sort Your 7400 Series ICs?

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phaeton - 23 Jul 2006 04:41 GMT
I just got a 7400-series assortment from Jameco.  Looks like there's a
lot of neat stuff in here (I'm still going through them all, looking
them up and seeing what I've got).  It looks like there are some
redundancies- i.e. sets of gates in non-shottky, some in shottky, etc.
Stuff like quad flipflops and hex flipflops.

So anyways, how do *you* guys sort these and put them away?
Do you sort each part number individually?
Do you sort by function? (Hex inverters with hex inverters, NAND gates
with NAND gates, regardless of how many are on the chip or whether
they're low-power or not)
Do you sort by Low-power Schottky, or CMOS, or??

Just curious.  I just might sort them all by function, but if anyone's
got any advice, I'd be appreciative.

Thanks!
Chris - 23 Jul 2006 05:06 GMT
> I just got a 7400-series assortment from Jameco.  Looks like there's a
> lot of neat stuff in here (I'm still going through them all, looking
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Thanks!

Hi, Phaeton.  I use large conductive foam sheets, and store them
numerically in fold-open thick card stock backings to which the
conductive foam is glued.  Then they can be shelved like large, thin
books.

Of course, I've spent a while in manufacturing, and had access to these
conductive foam sheets.  If you're looking to buy them retail, they're
pretty expensive.

Another possibility is storing them in the conductive tubes they're
shipped in, but again, that's more a matter of having access.  Believe
it or not, you can buy them retail, or you can scrounge around for
them.

Either way, you really should store them numerically.  Much easier to
find what you need.  If you get serious about this, you could also put
min/max numbers on the front of the container to make a note if you
need to reorder.

Good luck
Chris
Randy Day - 23 Jul 2006 14:58 GMT
[snip]

> Hi, Phaeton.  I use large conductive foam sheets, and store them
> numerically in fold-open thick card stock backings to which the
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> conductive foam sheets.  If you're looking to buy them retail, they're
> pretty expensive.

Does it work to slice open a number of
antistatic bags and lay them across a sheet
of foam? Do you get the antistatic benefits
by pushing the pins through the antistatic
into the foam?
Rich Grise - 23 Jul 2006 17:11 GMT
> [snip]
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> a sheet of foam? Do you get the antistatic benefits by pushing the pins
> through the antistatic into the foam?

If you're talking about styrofoam, I'd say stay away from it. How
expensive is conductive foam anyway? How were they packaged when they
shipped? You can cut up those tubes, too, if you only have a few of
a certain type of chips.

If you're really static-paranoid, you could use aluminum foil. :-)

Cheers!
Rich
Tom Biasi - 23 Jul 2006 20:14 GMT
> If you're really static-paranoid, you could use aluminum foil. :-)
>
> Cheers!
> Rich

On his head?
David L. Jones - 24 Jul 2006 00:35 GMT
> [snip]
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> by pushing the pins through the antistatic
> into the foam?

No.
You have to know the difference between "anti-static", "conductive" and
"static shielding".
"Anti-static" tubes and bags are *useless* for static protection, they
simply prevent static build-up within a static safe zone.
"static shielding" bags and "conductive" tubes prevent static damage to
the device while they are inside, so these are the best choice for
storage.
Conductive foam is pretty good too, but technically you can still touch
the pins and damage the device, so they aren't as good a conductive
tubes and shielding bags if you are serious about this. Conductive foam
is however fully acceptable within a static safe zone.

A lot of people think that IC's are safe inside "anti-static" tubes,
but you couldn't be further from the truth. A proper supplier will ship
IC's in anti-static tubes within a conductive box or shielding bag.

Don't ever use styrofoam, even with aluminium covering!

Dave :)
Tim Williams - 24 Jul 2006 23:44 GMT
I noticed that when I was going through stuff.  I poked the ohmmeter prods
into the foam, hmm, 2-20kohms or so, quite nice.  This foam, that foam, oops
that's styrofoam wtf *dumps in trash*, but the so-called "anti-static" IC
tubes don't conduct at all (the meter stops around 30M).

Tim

Signature

Deep Fryer: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

> No.
> You have to know the difference between "anti-static", "conductive" and
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> the device while they are inside, so these are the best choice for
> storage.
David L. Jones - 25 Jul 2006 03:37 GMT
> I noticed that when I was going through stuff.  I poked the ohmmeter prods
> into the foam, hmm, 2-20kohms or so, quite nice.

Yes, nice stuff, but in theory not good enough to stop damage in a
non-ESD protected area.

You've got to get the "hard cell" stuff too, not that wimpy spongy
type!

> This foam, that foam, oops
> that's styrofoam wtf *dumps in trash*, but the so-called "anti-static" IC
> tubes don't conduct at all (the meter stops around 30M).

Correct, they are only "static dissipative". i.e. designed not to build
up a charge. They will not stop a charge from going right through the
pastic and zapping the chip. Once you take the tube out of your
ESD-safe area, they are no longer protected.
You can get conductive and/or static shielded tubes as well, they are
usually black in colour.

Dave :)
Rich Grise - 25 Jul 2006 18:13 GMT
...
>> This foam, that foam, oops
>> that's styrofoam wtf *dumps in trash*, but the so-called "anti-static" IC
>> tubes don't conduct at all (the meter stops around 30M).

Dat foam, dat foam, dat - styrofoam, now heeeear de word o' de lawd! ;-P

> Correct, they are only "static dissipative". i.e. designed not to build
> up a charge. They will not stop a charge from going right through the
> pastic and zapping the chip. Once you take the tube out of your
> ESD-safe area, they are no longer protected.
> You can get conductive and/or static shielded tubes as well, they are
> usually black in colour.

Is that really from carbon, or is it some other additive? I'd heard that
carbon powder is hell on extrusion dies.

Thanks!
Rich
Alan B - 23 Jul 2006 05:24 GMT
On 22 Jul 2006 20:41:14 -0700, in message
<1153626074.139987.249180@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, "phaeton"
<blahbleh666@hotmail.com> scribed:

>Do you sort by Low-power Schottky [etc]....

That's how I'd do it.  That way, you get consistent behavior in your
designs.  When you dream up some bizarre circuit, find the assortment that
fits, then design your support circuitry appropriately.
David L. Jones - 23 Jul 2006 08:03 GMT
> I just got a 7400-series assortment from Jameco.  Looks like there's a
> lot of neat stuff in here (I'm still going through them all, looking
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Thanks!

I've tried all sorts of schemes but ended up just sorting numerically,
that seems the best compromise. I sort in numbered blocks depending on
how many trays I have. e.g. 7400 to 7409, 7410 to 7420, etc
HC, HCT, LS, AC etc all get mixed in together. Generally these days
you'd use HC for almost everything, with maybe AC for fast stuff.

Surface mount parts will generally get their own sorted rack, unless
you have deep racks that fit full tubes.

Grouping together by function can be a pain sometimes. Stick a
laminated function sheet on the side of the component rack if you want
a quick reference for this.

Conductive foam sheets (cut to size to fit the tray) allow you to
categorise within each tray if you want.

Dave :)
Mike - 23 Jul 2006 13:48 GMT
>I just got a 7400-series assortment from Jameco.  Looks like there's a
>lot of neat stuff in here (I'm still going through them all, looking
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
>Thanks!

I have collected a bunch of plastic parts cabnets over the years and
have each drawer numbered from 1-xxx. When I get some new ICs,
transistors, or whatever, I put them on some antistatic foam and stick
it them the next available drawer. Serveral years ago I wrote a little
DOS program so that I can keep track of what is in each drawer. Using
the program I can very quickly lookup a part number or search for a
keyword, or a parameter in the case of discrete semicinductors. This
makes it very easy to maintain an inventory of what I have on hand and
actually be able to find something.

Mike

------------------------------------------------------------------------
The odds of a single modest length protein randomly forming is approx
1 in 10^260. By comparison the number atoms in the known universe has
been estimated at 10^80 atoms.
Figues are from the writings of Nobel Prize winner Francis Crick in 1981.
Tim Williams - 23 Jul 2006 21:10 GMT
At work, I went through all the components in storage and organized them.

I just tossed all the 74xx junk, loose in small drawers, in order of
increasing number, showing no distinction to letters.  I figure it's
narrowed down enough that you can dig through the selection to find the
right letters you need.

I also put all CMOS (4000 and 74(H)C) seperately into foam, if not
particularly well organized ATM.  It's not real nice to put 74HC stuff away
from 74**, but it saves a lot of static trouble.

I also sorted some things by function, like another drawer has lots of
linear stuff, another has mostly power transistors, another has mostly
germanium power transistors, etc...

Tim

Signature

Deep Fryer: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

>I just got a 7400-series assortment from Jameco.  Looks like there's a
> lot of neat stuff in here (I'm still going through them all, looking
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Thanks!
phaeton - 24 Jul 2006 16:26 GMT
> I just got a 7400-series assortment from Jameco.  Looks like there's a

Thanks for all the replies, everyone.  As suggested I think I'm going
to sort them numerically, after all.  I just need to decide if I'm
going to pay attention to the letters in the numerical name and sort
those out, or lump em all together.

I do have some conductive foam, but I don't know that I've got enough
for *all* of these.  Not all 7400s are static sensitive though, right?
Just the stuff with the "C" in the name?  I also have some 'rails' or
'tubes'.  I used to have a bunch of them from prev. orders but I don't
know what happened to them all 0_o.  These didn't come with anything
nifty, just 100 pieces all jumbled together in a bag:

http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId
=10001&catalogId=10001&productId=17996


That picture right there is exactly how they arrived. Makes me a little
nervous about ESD that way, but hopefully they'll be ok.  If I don't
have enough foam I'll just go to a local Radio Shack and grab my
ankles^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hpick some up.

I presume that you cannot buy 4000-series assortments because they are
way old, obsoleted, and slowly going away?

> aluminum foil on his head?

Actually, I had my grandmother knit me some clothes and blankets out of
steel wool.  Works great at blocking all those CIA and Alien mind
control signals.  ;-)

-phaeton
Tim Williams - 24 Jul 2006 23:48 GMT
> I do have some conductive foam, but I don't know that I've got enough
> for *all* of these.  Not all 7400s are static sensitive though, right?
> Just the stuff with the "C" in the name?

Those are the only ones you have to be really careful about.  The rest can
still be killed (you'll probably find an ESD voltage rating (based on some
static shock model) in most datasheets), but you don't have to be *really*
careful about them, just careful.

For instance, when placing an IC, pick it up, ground yourself to the
circuit, and THEN place the IC.  You don't want to ground yourself AFTER you
already pushed the thing in.

> I presume that you cannot buy 4000-series assortments because they are
> way old, obsoleted, and slowly going away?

Sure.  But CD4xxxB is current, I think.  I see -BE's a lot, too.

I don't know about assortments specifically.

> Actually, I had my grandmother knit me some clothes and blankets out of
> steel wool.  Works great at blocking all those CIA and Alien mind
> control signals.  ;-)

Sounds itchy.

Tim

Signature

Deep Fryer: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

Eeyore - 30 Sep 2006 09:01 GMT
> So anyways, how do *you* guys sort these and put them away?

By part number.

> Do you sort each part number individually?

Yes. Nothing else makes sense.

> Do you sort by function?

Absolutely not. No help at all when populating a board.

> Do you sort by Low-power Schottky, or CMOS, or??

If I have anything that's not HC - it's likely to end up in the same tray
as the HC version with a note e.g. HC/HCT 7400.

Graham
 
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