delay
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mike7411@gmail.com - 25 May 2006 19:14 GMT Is there any easy way to delay an analog signal through a cable by half a second? (without digital conversion)
John Fields - 25 May 2006 19:27 GMT >Is there any easy way to delay an analog signal through a cable by half >a second? (without digital conversion) --- Get a really long cable... ;)
 Signature John Fields Professional Circuit Designer
John Larkin - 25 May 2006 21:39 GMT >Is there any easy way to delay an analog signal through a cable by half >a second? (without digital conversion) In real life, no. 60,000 miles or so of cable would have a lot of attenuation.
John
Sjouke Burry - 25 May 2006 22:08 GMT > Is there any easy way to delay an analog signal through a cable by half > a second? (without digital conversion) a bucket brigade shift register. I am not sure whether they make them anymore.
Rich Grise - 25 May 2006 23:38 GMT On Thu, 25 May 2006 11:14:31 -0700, mike7411 wrote:
> Is there any easy way to delay an analog signal through a cable by half > a second? (without digital conversion) Sure! Just make the cable 150,000,000 meters long. ;-)
Easy, but not cheap!
Cheers! Rich (P.S.: This is a Joke.)
Tim Auton - 26 May 2006 00:25 GMT >On Thu, 25 May 2006 11:14:31 -0700, mike7411 wrote: > >> Is there any easy way to delay an analog signal through a cable by half >> a second? (without digital conversion) > >Sure! Just make the cable 150,000,000 meters long. ;-) You make your cables out of vacuum? I tried that once, but they were a bugger to solder. Kept wicking it up. ;-)
Tim
 Signature Did I really still have that sig?
Rich Grise - 26 May 2006 18:13 GMT >>On Thu, 25 May 2006 11:14:31 -0700, mike7411 wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > You make your cables out of vacuum? I tried that once, but they were a > bugger to solder. Kept wicking it up. ;-) Nah - air is fine, just put a little ceramic spacer every few miles. Of course, the conductors would have to be neutronium, for the infinite rigidity you'd need, but heck, that's only about 3/16 the distance to the Moon and back! (back-of-the-envelope calc, of course) Or 3 1/2 times around Earth. =:-O
Cheers! Rich
Jasen Betts - 26 May 2006 08:15 GMT > Is there any easy way to delay an analog signal through a cable by half > a second? (without digital conversion) use a really long cable :)
in the past tape-recorder based delay setups have been used
Bye. Jasen
nospam@daqarta.com - 26 May 2006 16:34 GMT > Is there any easy way to delay an analog signal through a cable by half > a second? (without digital conversion) If you are looking for an analog delay, but it doesn't have to be cable-based, you might get a good approximation with a Bessel low-pass filter. The idea is that if the phase shift is proportional to frequency, then that is essentially a time delay. A Bessel has that property above its cutoff, but not below or in the transition region. A step response will be smeared, but as far as audibility goes this should work OK, in theory. It does mean you will need a really low cutoff, like 1 Hz or less.
There are also filter characteristics designed especially for this purpose, I just can't think what they are called at the moment. A good text on filters will probably have them.
Best regards,
nospam@daqarta.com - 27 May 2006 14:18 GMT My first response was a bit foggy. I think my "analog filters" brain cell was on coffee break. Here's an better answer:
> > Is there any easy way to delay an analog signal through a cable by half > > a second? (without digital conversion) There are delay-line analog filters, whose main purpose is not to remove frequencies but only to delay them. These are generally found under "All-Pass Filters" in filter texts. They may also be found as "Delay Equalizers". The earliest versions of delay lines were cascaded LC networks, which is essentially what you'd get with the "really long cable" approach others have posted. But with active filters this can be done much more simply, in only a few stages.
The basic all-pass design (first order) looks sorta like a differential op amp stage with the incoming signal fed to both the inverting and non-inverting inputs. There are the usual identical feedback and inverting input Rs, but where the diff amp would have idenitical non-inverting input and ground Rs (voltage divide by 2), the all-pass has instead an RC, either low-pass of high-pass.
2nd order stages are a bit more involved, but not much different from an active low-pass 2nd order.
The basic strategy is to design a low-pass filter with a (typically) Bessel response, then apply a "transformation" to get new values for the Rs and Cs in the all-pass design. Besides Bessel, there are Linear Phase and Equiripple Error approaches to the same goal, which is to have a phase shift that varies linearly with frequency.
A good reference for this is "Electronic Filter Design Handbook" by Arthur B. Williams. My copy is 1981; there may be a later edition by now.
Best regards,
Bob Masta
John Larkin - 27 May 2006 16:08 GMT >> Is there any easy way to delay an analog signal through a cable by half >> a second? (without digital conversion) [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > >Best regards, An analog delay inherently stores information. If the delay is, say, 1 second and you want CD-audio quality, it stores the equivalent of over 700K bits, whether it's a digital or an analog network. So one way to evaluate any delay device is to ask if it can store this many bits.
John
crazy frog - 27 May 2006 07:59 GMT pro real to real tape decks can do reverb.
> Is there any easy way to delay an analog signal through a cable by half > a second? (without digital conversion) John Fields - 27 May 2006 16:52 GMT >pro real to real tape decks can do reverb. --- Reely?
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crazy frog - 28 May 2006 05:39 GMT yeh reely so what are you going to do about it
>>pro real to real tape decks can do reverb. > > --- > Reely? John Fields - 28 May 2006 18:09 GMT >yeh reely so what are you going to do about it --- I already did it, imbecile.
 Signature John Fields Professional Circuit Designer
crazy frog - 29 May 2006 08:25 GMT watch it arsehole, i know youre web site, and funkin shut you down.
>>yeh reely so what are you going to do about it > > --- > I already did it, imbecile. Pooh Bear - 29 May 2006 08:32 GMT > watch it arsehole, i know youre web site, > and funkin shut you down. inetnum: 203.164.96.0 - 203.164.255.255 netname: ATHOME-AU descr: @Home Network Australia descr: @Home Network Australia intial HE and descr: Infrastructure allocations country: AU admin-c: OI3-AP tech-c: OI3-AP remarks: For abuse issues, please email abuse@optushome.com.au mnt-by: APNIC-HM mnt-lower: MAINT-AU-ATHOME changed: hostmaster@apnic.net 20000619 changed: hostmaster@apnic.net 20000901 changed: hostmaster@apnic.net 20010720 changed: hostmaster@apnic.net 20020319 status: ALLOCATED PORTABLE source: APNIC role: Optus Internet address: Level 3, 11 Help Street address: Chatswood, NSW 2067 country: AU phone: +61-2-9027-1127 fax-no: +61-2-9027-1035 e-mail: oie-netops@optus.com.au trouble: Send spam/abuse reports to abuse@optusnet.com.au admin-c: OI1-AP tech-c: OI1-AP nic-hdl: OI3-AP notify: oie-netops@optus.com.au mnt-by: MAINT-AU-OPTUSINTERNET changed: oie-netops@optus.com.au 20040502 changed: hm-changed@apnic.net 20041020 changed: hm-changed@apnic.net 20041020
crazy frog - 29 May 2006 08:30 GMT watch it arsehole, i know youre web site, i know where you are. or i will have you shut you down. *imbecile* John Fields
> Professional Circuit Designer my arse more like a pro fuckhead.
>>yeh reely so what are you going to do about it > > --- > I already did it, imbecile. John Fields - 29 May 2006 15:27 GMT >watch it arsehole, i know youre web site, >i know where you are. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> Professional Circuit Designer my arse >more like a pro fuckhead. --- Yawnnnnn....
Weren't you around here a while back and left when you got your ears pinned back so severely you couldn't stand it?
What makes you think it's going to go any better for you this this time around?
You're obviously still as stupid as you were the first time around, so what are you going to threaten to do this time that you can _really_ pull off? Other than your pud, that is.
And, I see you're still posting through Google, you pathetic loser.
Why don't you just go away and save yourself some grief, troll?
BTW, I've posted a picture of you I found on the web to:
news:bm0m72d4kaj3j5t9jsk0hj2mdmg0slhoc4@4ax.com
 Signature John Fields Professional Circuit Designer
crazy frog - 29 May 2006 23:24 GMT yep a pro fuckhead. who doesent know how to shut up.
>>watch it arsehole, i know youre web site, >>i know where you are. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > news:bm0m72d4kaj3j5t9jsk0hj2mdmg0slhoc4@4ax.com John Fields - 29 May 2006 23:48 GMT >yep a pro fuckhead. >who doesent know how to shut up. --- Opinions from a worthless piece of sh.t like you are also worthless.
 Signature John Fields Professional Circuit Designer
crazy frog - 30 May 2006 03:20 GMT still cant shut up troll
>>yep a pro fuckhead. >>who doesent know how to shut up. > > --- > Opinions from a worthless piece of sh.t like you are also worthless. crazy frog - 29 May 2006 23:35 GMT AND YOU STARTED IT THIS TIME *TROLL*
>>watch it arsehole, i know youre web site, >>i know where you are. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > news:bm0m72d4kaj3j5t9jsk0hj2mdmg0slhoc4@4ax.com John Fields - 29 May 2006 23:52 GMT >AND YOU STARTED IT THIS TIME >*TROLL* --- Nope, you did with your stupid "real to real" bullshit.
I just commented on your error in a humorous way and you got all bent out of shape, as usual, poor little insecure baby that you are.
Get lost, creep.
 Signature John Fields Professional Circuit Designer
crazy frog - 30 May 2006 03:20 GMT it aint bullshit troll thay can do it. fuckin moron
>>AND YOU STARTED IT THIS TIME >>*TROLL* [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Get lost, creep. crazy frog - 30 May 2006 03:49 GMT youre bullshit troll, ive seen better circuits come out of a jackass arse.
>>AND YOU STARTED IT THIS TIME >>*TROLL* [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Get lost, creep. crazy frog - 29 May 2006 23:46 GMT you are
AUSTIN INSTRUMENTS, INC.
>>watch it arsehole, i know youre web site, >>i know where you are. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > news:bm0m72d4kaj3j5t9jsk0hj2mdmg0slhoc4@4ax.com John Fields - 30 May 2006 00:04 GMT >you are > >AUSTIN INSTRUMENTS, INC. --- Yeah, and you're nobody.
So, you finally figured out how to read a header, huh, ya dumb bastard?
What next? Maybe you'll learn how to walk upright without dragging your knuckles?
I doubt it, but maybe (if you've got the time) you and a bunch of your mates could volunteer to try to type out the Encyclopedia Britannica?
 Signature John Fields Professional Circuit Designer
crazy frog - 30 May 2006 03:26 GMT dont bet on it arsehole how bout a smak in mouth to shut you up arsehole
>>you are >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > your mates could volunteer to try to type out the Encyclopedia > Britannica? crazy frog - 30 May 2006 03:43 GMT youre somebody allright an arsehole may find him self on the river bank.
>>you are >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > your mates could volunteer to try to type out the Encyclopedia > Britannica? crazy frog - 27 May 2006 09:02 GMT a pro reel to reel deck will do it
> Is there any easy way to delay an analog signal through a cable by half > a second? (without digital conversion)
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