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Electronics Forum / Electronics / January 2008AA Batteries
Simple question, where can I find the longest lasting rechargable AA batteries? And what would be the best charger to get? Thanks Michael (who's sick of his torch going flat while night diving :-) "Michael C" > Simple question, where can I find the longest lasting rechargable AA > batteries? And what would be the best charger to get? ** This gives you 6 NiMH cells, 1 hour fast charging and mains of car charging options: http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/4791a8f2019429ea273fc0a87f9c074b/Pr oduct/View/S4423P Very good deal. ........ Phil > "Michael C" > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > ........ Phil Just be aware the batteries don't become too discharged. For example leaving the torch on and forgetting to switch it off, this particular Eveready charger won't recharge the cells. The charge light for the cell under charge will simply sit there and flash and NOT recharge the cell. Opinion is based on personal experience with this particular charger. The only option to "resurrect" the cells that have been overly discharged is to charge them in a charger that doesn't "think" the cell is damaged or over discharged. If you ensure you recharge the cells before the terminal voltage gets too low, the said Eveready charger works quite well. Unfortunately I don't know of any torch that automatically switches off before the batteries are exhausted. Cheers, Alan > Just be aware the batteries don't become too discharged. For example > leaving the torch on and forgetting to switch it off, this particular > Eveready > charger won't recharge the cells. The charge light for the cell under > charge > will simply sit there and flash and NOT recharge the cell. I've had this problem before and had to put the batteries in a charger I no longer use just the get it going. The reason I don't use that charger is it doesn't switch off and you have to remember to take the batteries out yourself. But the one I have that switches itself off doesn't charge dead flat batteries either. > "Michael C" > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Very good deal. Much cheaper on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Energizer-Ultra-Fast-Charger_W0QQitemZ320209536235QQihZ01 1QQcategoryZ50510QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Dave. "David L. j.rkoff " >> ** This gives you 6 NiMH cells, 1 hour fast charging and mains of car >> charging options: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Much cheaper on eBay: > http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Energizer-Ultra-Fast-Charger_W0QQitemZ320209536235QQihZ01 1QQcategoryZ50510QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem ** No it is not. http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/4792754a03926160273fc0a87f9c06fa/Pr oduct/View/S4423 The $8 difference is not worth the risks associated of dealing with a dodgy eBay dealer. ....... Phil > "David L. j.rkoff " > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/4792754a03926160273fc0a8... Ah, they are charging a fortune for the "bonus" batteries then, that's the one I looked at as it was the product number in your original link (S4423P): http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/4792b8d7061ec0ce2740c0a87f9c074c/Pr oduct/View/S4423P $95 not the $70 S4423 you posted this time. > The $8 difference is not worth the risks associated of dealing with a dodgy > eBay dealer. Not everyone is out to get you Phil. Feedback of 50 is pretty good, hardly a dodgy eBay seller, and it's delivered to your door. Dave. "David L. j.rkoff = the dumbest MORON on this NG " >> >> ** This gives you 6 NiMH cells, 1 hour fast charging and mains of car >> >> charging options: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Not everyone is out to get you Phil. ** Jones the j.rkoff has no brains, no sense & is a totally vile, autistic pig. The cretin posts ridiculous sh.t like the above just to make sure we all know it. > Feedback of 50 is pretty good, hardly a dodgy eBay seller, ** The shonk has only been on eBay for one month. The risks for the buyer are many and very real - no matter that a scum of the planet pig like Jones has no clue or the tiniest interest in what they are. > and it's delivered to your door. ** So f.cking what ? YOU have to pay for that. ....... Phil > > "David L. j.rkoff " > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Dave. ------------ If you are concerned about the ebay seller - pay with paypal on your CREDIT CARD. if the item doesnt come, contact the card company and they will credit you, after checking your claim I had this happen about 6 months back when buying a development kit (that never arrived) from a Canadian ebayer, had no problems getting reimbursed from the card company. Paying by bank deposit you are probably stuffed as to compensation for non-delivery etc. Paypal/ebay offer some form of customer protection in some circumstances, but have never used it so cant say how good or bad it is. Have bought in excess of 200 items through ebay in the past few years, this is the only problem I have had to date. The savings over stores (particularly with electronic components) are often substantial. "kreed" > If you are concerned about the ebay seller - pay with paypal on your > CREDIT CARD. if the item doesnt come, contact the card company and > they will credit you, after checking your claim ** That is only ONE of many issues with back yard operators purporting to sell new goods on eBay. The BIG Q concerns the origin and provenance of the goods ............ Are they from reject batches, old and defective stock sold at auction or maybe goods stolen from shops or warehouses ?? Are they the genuine brand as advertised - or as is sometimes the case a highly inferior clone or counterfeit of the original ? Do they meet compulsory electrical safety and EMI regulations ? What if any warranty is available ?? The list is endless. ....... Phil "Phil Allison" > The BIG Q concerns the origin and provenance of the goods ............ > > Are they from reject batches, old and defective stock sold at auction or > maybe goods stolen from shops or warehouses ?? I agree! I made the mistake of buying some Lithium batteries from an eBay seller. Good feedback & all. About half the price of the same batteries available here. Same 'quality' brand just a lot cheaper. Over half of them were no good. Very boring indeed. Probably a reject batch sold off cheap. NEVER AGAIN! Angelo Sartore Melbourne AUSTRALIA ADOPT, ADAPT, INVENT, DESTROY ! > "Phil Allison" >> The BIG Q concerns the origin and provenance of the goods ............ [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > ADOPT, ADAPT, INVENT, DESTROY ! Lithium batteries have a shelf life, especially the rechargeables. I often laugh at the casual user who gets conned into buying a spare Lithium Ion battery for their mobile phone only to discover that by the time they have exhausted the first battery's rechargeability the second (spare) is half dead. Cheers, Alan > "Phil Allison" >> The BIG Q concerns the origin and provenance of the goods ............ [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > ADOPT, ADAPT, INVENT, DESTROY ! That's exactly the reason I've avoided Ebay and bought from normal outlets. If you get something from DSE which is defective, you just take it back and the drones will replace it on the spot. One of my mates bought a used digital camera for me on Ebay. When I got it, it was just the camera with none of its accessories (e.g. USB cable), not even its soft case, and it was full of rock concert photos. Almost like the seller grabbed it while the owner wasn't looking then sold it. OK, maybe I'm cynical ... Bob >> "Phil Allison" >>> The BIG Q concerns the origin and provenance of the goods ............ [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Bob Sounds pretty right to me Bob. Lots of stolen stuff ends up on Ebay. Pointless taking it to the pawn shops as they have to list all pawned items with the police and then keep stuff for a couple of weeks before they can sell it. Too much chance the thief will get nabbed. Cheers, Alan > Sounds pretty right to me Bob. > Lots of stolen stuff ends up on Ebay. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Cheers, > Alan Ironically I had it for 3 months before it got stolen out of my car. Yeah, I know: NEVER leave anything of value in a car, even in your own driveway and even if it's got an alarm. I haven't seen the camera on Ebay yet, but I'm still watching. :-( Cheers Bob >> "Phil Allison" >>> The BIG Q concerns the origin and provenance of the goods ............ [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Bob Mate, Dick Smith has in their catalogue 256mb pc 133 sdram for $136 I just purchased the same on ebay for $8 It is out of another computer but is working just fine. How could you knock that?? > Mate, Dick Smith has in their catalogue 256mb pc 133 sdram for $136 > I just purchased the same on ebay for $8 > It is out of another computer but is working just fine. > How could you knock that?? Great! There are times when common sense has to prevail. :-) > >> "Phil Allison" > >>> The BIG Q concerns the origin and provenance of the goods ............ [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > It is out of another computer but is working just fine. > How could you knock that?? You can't really. eBay has its pros and cons, just like shopping at DSE and almost every other place does. The usual rules of common sense apply. Like buying a 2nd hand camera and being surprised when it doesn't come with the accessories (I know it's not Bob's fault as he didn't buy it). Or buying batteries at "too good to be true" prices, and being surprised when they are crap. Or buying a new $1000 camera for $100 from someone in asia with a feedback rating of two and being surprised when it doesn't turn up. etc etc. As for DSE, they may be a "reputable" dealer, but they have been known more than once to sell (probably unknowingly) shonky products and fake parts etc. They'll happily buy from the lowest cost asian wholesaler no questions asked, just like many of the Ebay sellers do. In the case of the original Ebay charger I quoted, the risk is very low indeed. All the good signs are there - It's an Australian seller, feedback is high and good, looks like it comes in the original sealed package, it's not a one-off, seller appears to specialise in selling all things Energizer, and the price is not so low as to make it sound like it's "too good to be true". All the hallmarks of a genuine product being sold on eBay at a good price that undercuts the biggies. Of course, in some cases it's actually cheaper to buy at DSE than eBay. Not everything on eBay is chepaer than the big dealers. Dave. "David L. j.rkoff the Lying Fuckwit >> >> "Phil Allison" >> >>> The BIG Q concerns the origin and provenance of the goods [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > eBay has its pros and cons, ** Yep - eBay is chock full of PRO- fessional CON- artists !! > just like shopping at DSE and almost every > other place does. ** Asinine & criminally FALSE BOLLOCKS !!!!!!!!!!!! > The usual rules of common sense apply. ** ROTFLMAO !! Congenitally f.cked in the head arseholes like " Jones the j.rkoff " possess not ONE OUNCE of common sense. > As for DSE, they may be a "reputable" dealer, but they have been known > more than once to sell (probably unknowingly) shonky products and fake > parts etc. They'll happily buy from the lowest cost asian wholesaler > no questions asked, just like many of the Ebay sellers do. ** UTTERLY false comparison with the criminal scum that infests eBay. > In the case of the original Ebay charger I quoted, the risk is very > low indeed. ** BOLLOCKS !!!!!!!!! > All the good signs are there - It's an Australian seller, > feedback is high and good, ** Only been selling for ONE month. The feedback is TOTALLY WORTHLESS far as the provenance of the goods is concerned. The price difference is TINY. It ain't worth taking any risk whatever. ........ Phil > If you are concerned about the ebay seller - pay with paypal on your > CREDIT CARD. if the item doesnt come, contact the card company and > they will credit you, after checking your claim You should be made aware that this will initiate a chargeback against Paypal, not the seller. You risk having your account closed since PP have to pay the fees associated with the chargeback (which is something like $US30, plus they get penalised if their chargeback ratio goes too high). The credit card company doesn't care that Paypal are a man in the middle service, as far as they are concerned Paypal is the merchant that you made the purchase with... BTW, unless they've improved remarkably in the past couple of years, the Energiser cells seem to have a very high self-discharge rate. If you charge them before use it's fine, but if your usage is more spontaneous (or sparse) then you'll probably be better off with another brand. I tried the cheapie brand "Ritmo" (purchased from MSY Computers) several months ago and have been very happy with their performance. > BTW, unless they've improved remarkably in the past couple of years, > the Energiser cells seem to have a very high self-discharge rate. If > you charge them before use it's fine, but if your usage is more > spontaneous (or sparse) then you'll probably be better off with > another brand. I agree. I've just had one Energizer 2.5AH NiMH cell in a pair go completely flat a couple of weeks after it was charged and with almost no use, while its companion stayed almost fully charged. I've had this problem with those cells before. They were often self-discharging at about 25% per *day*. I've been replacing them with Duracell 2.65AH NiMH from Coles which have been excellent so far. Bob "rowan194" > BTW, unless they've improved remarkably in the past couple of years, > the Energiser cells seem to have a very high self-discharge rate. If [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Computers) several months ago and have been very happy with their > performance. ** Dunno about the " Energiser " brand NiMH AAs - but a pair of DSE brand 2000 mAh cells I bought about 10 months ago for my digital camera are going just fine. Must be some kind parallel there with pedigreed v. moggies - I guess. ........ Phil > ** Dunno about the " Energiser " brand NiMH AAs - but a pair of DSE > brand 2000 mAh cells I bought about 10 months ago for my digital camera are [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > ........ Phil I researched this a while ago. It's claimed that the Energizers are rebadged Sanyos. There's a long user comment about them at http://www.amazon.com/review/R2UW60Y48A0V70/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm/ and my experience with them has been the same as the reviewer's. They're good for maybe 6 months after purchase, then the self-discharge rate suddenly increases and keeps increasing until they're unusable. Bob "Bob Parker" Phil Allison wrote: >> ** Dunno about the " Energiser " brand NiMH AAs - but a pair of DSE >> brand 2000 mAh cells I bought about 10 months ago for my digital camera [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > http://www.amazon.com/review/R2UW60Y48A0V70/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm/ and my > experience with them has been the same as the reviewer's. ** Interesting link. Lucky I steered clear of Energiser NiMH cells. ..... Phil > > ** No it is not. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > not the $70 S4423 you posted this time. Gotta be something amiss there, they look like an identical product. S4423 - Charger by itself, $69.99 S4423P - Charger with bonus batteries "valued at $9.99", $94.98 So you're paying an extra $24.99 to get some "free" batteries that are worth $9.99? :) "rowan194" > Gotta be something amiss there, they look like an identical product. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > So you're paying an extra $24.99 to get some "free" batteries that are > worth $9.99? :) ** Yep - someone screwed up the pricing all right. .... Phil > ** This gives you 6 NiMH cells, 1 hour fast charging and mains of car > charging options: > > http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/4791a8f2019429ea273fc0a87f9c074b/Pr oduct/View/S4423P > > Very good deal. Thanks for the tip Phil, that looks pretty cool as the incar option would be a bonus. Do you know though if these batteries outperform others or is there little difference between various brands? I though it was possible to get 3000mAh batteries? Regards, Michael "Michael C" > "Phil Allison" >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > there little difference between various brands? I though it was possible > to get 3000mAh batteries? ** They do exist, but are not easy to find and may well suffer serious drawbacks compared to the more common 2 & 2.5 Ah types - ie they are not compatible with 1 hr fast charging. Engineering is all about making trade offs and what makes the best trade off for each particular application. BTW You may find good deals on NiMH cell / charger combos at Woollies and Coles supermarkets and places like K-Mart too. ....... Phil > ** They do exist, but are not easy to find and may well suffer serious > drawbacks compared to the more common 2 & 2.5 Ah types - ie they are [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > You may find good deals on NiMH cell / charger combos at Woollies and > Coles supermarkets and places like K-Mart too. I have seen the same ones (energised) at coles, I check the price next time I'm there. The other thing I didn't think of was converting it to LED, something I should investigate. Michael > I have seen the same ones (energised) at coles, I check the price next > time That was meant to be energizer, not energised. :-) Michael >> I have seen the same ones (energised) at coles, I check the price next >> time > > That was meant to be energizer, not energised. :-) > > Michael FWIW, I've found that the Duracell 2650mAH NiMH AA cells they flog at Woolies and Coles are very good. Their rate of self discharge seems to be lower than the Energizer 2500mAH ones, and they cost the same. I've seen chargers for them around the place but didn't take much notice. They might have been the kind which take ~15 hours to charge them. Bob >> ** They do exist, but are not easy to find and may well suffer serious >> drawbacks compared to the more common 2 & 2.5 Ah types - ie they are [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Michael One of the magazines available in the UK recently published plans to convert a diving torch to LEDs, I think it may have been Elektor - try a search on their website, if not it could have been Everyday Practical Electronics (EPE). >> You may find good deals on NiMH cell / charger combos at Woollies and >> Coles supermarkets and places like K-Mart too. > > I have seen the same ones (energised) at coles, I check the price next > time I'm there. The other thing I didn't think of was converting it to > LED, something I should investigate. A month or so ago Woolies had a charger & 4 x 2500mAH Engergisers for $20 (usual price $25). I've been very happy with them, though the batteries get a little warm in the charger and I don't know if the cut-off works. Just watch the mAH ratings on the batteries supplied - Duracell does a similar deal but the 4 batteries supplied in their chargers are less (1800 mA/H?) than those available seperately (2650 mA/H). A trap if you don't read the writing! > >> You may find good deals on NiMH cell / charger combos at Woollies and > >> Coles supermarkets and places like K-Mart too. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > A month or so ago Woolies had a charger & 4 x 2500mAH Engergisers for $20 > (usual price $25). Coles also usually carry a range of Energizer and Duracell chargers, not sure of the price though. But all the ones I have seen there are the 10-12hour "slow charge" type. Dave. "Peter Parker" > A month or so ago Woolies had a charger & 4 x 2500mAH Engergisers for $20 > (usual price $25). > > I've been very happy with them, though the batteries get a little warm in > the charger and I don't know if the cut-off works. ** Very likely the charger uses the rise in temp of the cells to trigger the end of charge. Bout the only way to quick charge NiMH cells since the terminal voltage does not peak nicely like NiCds do. ........ Phil >> I've been very happy with them, though the batteries get a little warm in >> the charger and I don't know if the cut-off works. > ** Very likely the charger uses the rise in temp of the cells to trigger the > end of charge. > Bout the only way to quick charge NiMH cells since the terminal voltage > does not peak nicely like NiCds do. Sure, dT works nicely (IMO the preferred way), however, I have yet to see a typical charger (that you buy from your local KMart or such) do it this way. Temperature sensing is more difficult to handle, since you need to sense each cell, and have it stay in the cradle and have a temperature sensor press against it at the same time. What they do instead is use a modified dV dt method that turns off once the voltage tapers off enough instead of waiting for it to go back down again. In fact, the only charger I've seen with temperature sensing is my portable EPROM programmer. But those cells are built-in, not free-floating AA's.  SignatureLinux Registered User # 302622 <http://counter.li.org> > > ** They do exist, but are not easy to find and may well suffer serious > > drawbacks compared to the more common 2 & 2.5 Ah types - ie they are [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Michael Also check Australia post, our local post office shop had that same charger/battery combo pack there and Im sure it was only about $60. > Also check Australia post, our local post office shop > had that same charger/battery combo pack there and Im sure it was only > about $60. Thanks for all the replies. Looks like duracell are the go, I'll see what I can find. I was thinking my batteries were fairly new but when I think about it they're at least 2 years old. |
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